Straight - 3 to a flush on board

[Harry]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: hlacheen is BB with Q, T.
UTG calls, MP calls, Button calls, 1 fold, hlacheen checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9, 8, J (4 players)
hlacheen bets, UTG folds, MP calls, Button folds.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 7 (2 players)
hlacheen bets, MP raises, hlacheen calls.

River: (7.25 BB) K (2 players)
hlacheen checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

The reraise after the 3rd club made me think she hit her flush, so I slowed down. Was this appropriate?

[euphoricism]

Dont tell us the results.

I dont see any reason to play it any differently than you did. Threebet just gets you capped when youre behind, and not much extra when youre ahead. Lose two, win one.

[pokerfanatic]

Dont tell us the results.

I dont see any reason to play it any differently than you did. Threebet just gets you capped when youre behind, and not much extra when youre ahead. Lose two, win one.

i might have donked the river with a great read that they would raise something like the Ace draw only...

but that is a more advanced line of thinking and very read spacfic, if your not strong in that area it will put you in some rough spots...

[Xanadu]

Sounds like you are having a little trouble adjusting, but as long as you learn from your troubles, you should do fine in the long run. I think it was in response to one of your earlier posts this week that I said 'shorthanded a third card to a flush or straight is not a scare card'. In most cases this is true. Sure, your opponent may have the flush, but as you have learned and will continue to see, they more often have top pair, an over pair, two pair, or less than these hands. The hand you posted here is an excellent example, and is also a hand that with experience you will recognize as one where you can make tons by raising and capping your straight.

The key here is that you have to think of the range of hands that your opponent will act as they do with. Having reads helps a ton. Some players would never raise this turn when the flush card hits without a flush. But these players are the minority at a short table. On this hand, even if you 3-bet and get capped on the turn, it is probably more likely you are ahead than not. An especially profitable factor in this hand is that any ten makes a straight, but having the Q as well, you have all the other tens crushed, and can get many bets from them.

Think about this: When you have TPTK shorthanded, do you always slow down because the opponent may have a set or 2pair when there are no flush or straight possibilities? When you have 2pair, do you always slow down because you fear a set? If you don't then you should realize that 3 to a flush is really the same thing ... it's just another way you could be beat. Unless you hold the nuts, there is always a chance of being beat. At a short table, and especially heads up, don't slow down a good hand without a very good reason.

I think the biggest thing you need to work on is observing your opponents' calling and betting/raising standards. You need to understand what these standards are for the typical player at the games you are playing, and you need to look out for the players who deviate from the typical and learn them as well. Until you get a feel for this, you should not play more than one table. You should be watching every hand and getting an idea of what the other players are doing and play accordingly.

Good Luck,
x

[Harry]

Thanks Xanadu, that post really helped. I think I need to get more money out of monster hands. A few bad beats or monster hands beaten by better monsters has got me immediatley thinking they have the one hand that beats me every time I get raised. I find I am constantly suprised at the SD after I call down, by my mediocre or good hand winning, when I thought by their raising that I was definetly beat.

[euphoricism]

Dont tell us the results.

I dont see any reason to play it any differently than you did. Threebet just gets you capped when youre behind, and not much extra when youre ahead. Lose two, win one.

i might have donked the river with a great read that they would raise something like the Ace draw only...

but that is a more advanced line of thinking and very read spacfic, if your not strong in that area it will put you in some rough spots...

I wrote that post about four seperate times, I just couldn't decide on a line
I liked the best.

First I said threebet, call down to a cap. But what does that accomplish? If he has a flush, we're toast. If he has top pair, he folds on the river. We only make extra when he has a weaker straight or calls down with two pair. Does it happen enough to combat the win 1 lose 2 situation? I don't know. Maybe. Its close.

The river donk was something I considered as well -- but I don't like donking the river unless I improve substantially or I can fold to a raise. I have neither improved here, nor can I fold to a raise.

Villain should have bet the river here, I don't quite know why he didn't - we kind of expect the extra bet there when we're ahead. Sucks he didn't give it to us.

I dont see any way for OP to play this differently, though I could understand a threebet and calldown a cap. Hell, I don't even want to call down a cap, begging he has the weaker ten. But would he cap it there? No. Cap = flush.

I remain by my "I dont think I can play this differently" statement.


/wrote this post four times too
//I can tell when a posters question is marginal by how many times I edit my answer
///I'm on six now.

[thenonsequitur]

I personally thought this was an easy 3-bet. I don't see it as marginal. Of course reads can make a difference, but I'm talking about playing against the majority of small stakes SH players.

Yeah, two clubs plays this way, but so does anybody with a ten, and potentially hands like Ac9, 88 or 99 slowplaying, 77, or QJ (and other things that I can't think of--I tend to give people too much credit for thinking before raising).

Of all these possibilities, somebody with a ten is by far the most likely. And even of most of the other possibilities, I'm still ahead. I can't see why it's plausible to fear the two clubs when a lone ten will play this way.

If it gets capped, I'm definitely just calling down, but I still feel okay about my hand because I know that while I could be losing to any flush, I'm beating a lower straight or chopping with another QT, and many people will cap the turn with any straight, even with a 3-flush showing.

And while this doesn't factor into my decision, if the 8c comes on the river you now beat anything. But that's just a fun bonus.

[elipsesjeff]

Playing with reads and knowing your opponents is key here. I probably would have 3bet most opponents and sometimes even non-nut flushes will not cap you.

[Tafi]

Raise the turn and slow down if you get raised again. A lower straight or maybe even a bluff with the Ac +pair is possible.

[wufwugy]

with this hand, slowing down with the nut straight because of a third suited card is like slowing down with the nut flush because the board paired.