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Standard spot, let's experiment

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  1. #1

    Default Standard spot, let's experiment

    $2/$5 in a $500 cap game at Borgata

    Hero has solidish image (by my standards), some unusual backstory worth mentioning. There's this one reg in the game who is absolutely terrified of me, and has probably unique opinions about my play. He thinks I'm really super tight and rarely bluff and I always show up with the nuts. Now, it is probably true that I am tighter than my normal persona/image/appearance suggests, but it is nowhere to the extent that this guy thinks. Part of it is he's a nit, smalk sample size, part of it is he has been able to make ridiculous hero folds against me by making correct reads. Anyway, he's expressed this opinion very loudly at this table many times, and asked for a transfer.

    Also, I lost a huge 3-way pot that was all in on the turn with the stone cold nuts. Obviously this didn't do anything to change my game, I've played great since then. There was also an unusual hand at one point where I bet flop, turn went c/c, and I called a river bet from a maniac, who just quickly mucked, I informed him I called with Ace high.

    Anyway, consider this standard, not really interesting hand:

    Game is now 6-handed, very bad older fishy gentleman limps CO and has $350, I have $600 and raise BTN to $20 with A9ss. Raise size is a little on small side because of several factors: CO's stack size, I'm on the BTN, the game is shorthanded and I'm going to be opening quite a bit wider. SB folds, BB calls and CO calls.

    BB has $550 and is an early 30s white guy, nondescript, probably just tries to play TAG and not leak money, pretty common for bad regs in this game.

    Flop ($62): Ad 2c 6c
    BB checks, CO checks, Hero bets $35, both call.

    Turn ($167): 7s
    BB checks, CO checks, Hero?

    This is pretty clearly a value bet but it's arguably a little thin. Even shorthanded, BB is not calling with many bad off suit Ax IMO, he'd probably 3-bet AK but maybe not AT-AQ. CO has a flush draw or some midpair he's stubborn with.

    What's your estimate on our equity here? Probably in the 40%-45% range vs. 2. What should we bet here? Probably $80-$120, and I lean toward the smaller side to make sure we aren't folding out the BB's worse hands.

    Now, what if we did this instead.

    Flop ($62): Ad 2c 6c
    BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

    Turn ($182): 7s
    BB bets $35, CO calls, Hero raises to $125.
    Last edited by baudib; 12-15-2015 at 05:05 AM.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  2. #2
    griffey24's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    I don't necessarily think it's a snap turn double barrel, but I don't hate $90/fold, with plan of checking back all rivers (except 9) if called.

    Facing the donk, again I don't hate it as I think if BB calls you can even potentially get CO off a better ace, but I'm folding to any heat ofcourse (ie: 3bet) and checking back all non 9 rivers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay-Z
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    I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
  3. #3
    surviva316's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Tough when Wet / White
    Check back flop with top pair -> raise turn lead should definitely be in your bag of tricks, but there's a lot I don't like about doing it in this spot.

    1) Our hand is vulnerable on this flop against a couple of players where our value is probably mostly gonna come from charging draws;

    2) There are only 4 Axs we beat, many of which only come in the suited variety;

    3) These players sound neither super aggressive (to where I care about protecting my check back range and/or to where I think we get a ton of juicy EV from inducing air) nor super stationy (to where we can get more than 2 bets out of anything less than Ax).

    I'd rather do this against really stabby/unbelieving players with like ATo on AJ6r (eg). On this particular board, since the A isn't a club, we can do it with Axcc as well. Though I know that Renton for one feels very differently about trading off the value of betting pair+flush possibilities for having invulnerable hands in our check back range ...

    Oh, and as played, I think betting is too thin 3-way. I'd just check and try to fade the river.
  4. #4
    I get what you're saying. I'm bluffing the turn though.

    If this was about how to get max value out of a medium strength hand it probably wouldn't be this hand in this spot.

    I'm basically trying to find spots where we can use a range advantage and a board where it's really hard for anyone to have a huge hand + sizing tells to exploit the fact that guys like BB who are wannabe TAGs in 2015 are folding too much.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.

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