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Razz $16 Sng: Maximizing value from the nuts

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  1. #1

    Default Razz $16 Sng: Maximizing value from the nuts

    Tournament - HORSE - Razz - Level III (40/80), Ante 8, Bring-In 12 (converter)

    Seat 1: 2,144
    Seat 2: 1,879
    Seat 3: 1,727
    Seat 4: 839
    Seat 5: 739
    Seat 6: 1,394
    Seat 7: 1,650
    Hero: 1,628

    3rd Street - (1.60 SB)

    Seat 1: xx xx T ___folds
    Seat 2: xx xx A ___raises___raises
    Seat 3: xx xx 9 ___folds
    Seat 4: xx xx 8 ___folds
    Seat 5: xx xx 2 ___folds
    Seat 6: xx xx A ___calls___calls
    Seat 7: xx xx J ___brings-in___folds
    Hero: 4 5 A ___raises___raises___calls

    4th Street - (13.90 SB)

    Seat 2: xx xx A T ___calls___calls
    Seat 6: xx xx A 7 ___raises___calls
    Hero: 4 5 A 3 ___bets___raises

    5th Street - (11.45 BB)

    Seat 2: xx xx A T 2 ___checks___calls
    Seat 6: xx xx A 7 5 ___bets
    Hero: 4 5 A 3 2 ___checks___calls

    6th Street - (14.45 BB)

    Seat 2: xx xx A T 2 7 ___calls
    Seat 6: xx xx A 7 5 J ___calls
    Hero: 4 5 A 3 2 5 ___bets

    River - (17.45 BB)

    Seat 2: xx xx A T 2 7 xx___folds
    Seat 6: xx xx A 7 5 J xx___folds
    Hero: 4 5 A 3 2 5 5 ___bets

    Total pot: (17.45 BB)


    What is the best play to maximize value on this hand ?


  2. #2
    i check raise 5th with 2 villians. altho nothing wrong with the way u played it.

    other than that u did all u could. maybe check raise river for added effect as seat 6 will probably bet his 7s
  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by lNormajean
    i check raise 5th with 2 villians. altho nothing wrong with the way u played it.

    other than that u did all u could. maybe check raise river for added effect as seat 6 will probably bet his 7s
    Not sure what the correct play on 5th is, check-raising will most likely get seat 2 to fold, but I be raised again by the original raiser


  4. #4
    Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

    Just lead / jam every street once you make your wheel.



    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
    As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
    As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
    As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaxton
    Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

    Check-raising 5th is horrendous, and so is check-calling. Just jam every street once you make your wheel.



    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
    As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
    As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
    As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515
    You are ignoring the 3rd player (seat 6) both in the simulation and in the decision on 3rd, why is that ?


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by TLR
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaxton
    Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

    Check-raising 5th is horrendous, and so is check-calling. Just jam every street once you make your wheel.



    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
    As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
    As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
    As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515
    You are ignoring the 3rd player (seat 6) both in the simulation and in the decision on 3rd, why is that ?
    Nevermind. I forgot you don't take advice.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaxton
    Quote Originally Posted by TLR
    Quote Originally Posted by dsaxton
    Just call 3rd street when the other guy reraises. You're at best only a small favorite (see simulations below), and you don't want to define your downcards. Better is to call and put the thought in the other guy's head that you might have a bad card in the hole.

    Check-raising 5th is horrendous, and so is check-calling. Just jam every street once you make your wheel.



    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 296667 59.33 202678 40.54 655 0.13 0.594
    As 8s 7s 202678 40.54 296667 59.33 655 0.13 0.406

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 252938 50.59 246052 49.21 1010 0.20 0.507
    As 6s 2s 246052 49.21 252938 50.59 1010 0.20 0.493

    Razz (7-card Stud A-5 Low): 500000 sampled outcomes
    cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
    4s 5c Ah 240516 48.10 255368 51.07 4116 0.82 0.485
    As 5s 2s 255368 51.07 240516 48.10 4116 0.82 0.515
    You are ignoring the 3rd player (seat 6) both in the simulation and in the decision on 3rd, why is that ?
    Nevermind. I forgot you don't take advice.
    If I did not want advice I would not have posted the hand, if my response came out as offensive I am sorry, that was not my intention at all.

    In all the hand simulations (and I appreciate the time you took to do them), you did not consider the 3rd player who was in the pot, and I was wandering if it should not have factored into our decision of raising vs calling at 3rd street. with only one opponent in the pot I agree with your assessment that it is better to call then to raise and conceal the strength of our hand, but the 3rd player in the pot makes the decision more complex, on one hand raising may get us to play the pot heads up (which I think is better for us then playing 3 way) but on the other hand if both of them come along it builts a pot that is much harder to get away from if it develops into mid strength hand


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