Splitting 2 pairs got me to fl early here.
Eric
Discard: 2 4 4 3
Wazzup (dealer)
Discard: 2 3 7 5
02-16-2014 05:12 PM
#151
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Splitting 2 pairs got me to fl early here. | |
02-16-2014 06:58 PM
#152
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02-17-2014 10:29 PM
#153
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What do you think about the way I got there on this one? I'm thinking maybe it is better to set AA mid than front. | |
02-17-2014 10:31 PM
#154
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Here's one where I didn't make it with AA mid. | |
02-18-2014 11:25 PM
#155
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How do you guys set this? | |
02-19-2014 11:17 AM
#156
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This is my standard choice: | |
02-19-2014 05:23 PM
#157
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This is my preferred set, too. I'll grant that it will sometimes miss out on big hands when one or both of the other 4s comes later, but I like it best because it often makes 2 small pair in the mid and the bottom can make Ts-up, 9s-up or some backdoor straight. I'm not absolutely convinced this is best, but I'd be happy to put my money on this set if you run out 1000 hands each, starting with xxx/5/44T9, xxx/95/44T, and xxx/445/T 9 and see what they can make. |
Last edited by OneByPhi; 02-19-2014 at 07:05 PM. | |
02-20-2014 01:22 AM
#158
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We'll have to get some bots going on this. I don't think my set is that much worse than the others because our main goal is fl as opposed to royalties. It's true that my set limits us to trips in back but it also leaves us a lot of room in the middle. | |
02-22-2014 05:53 PM
#159
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My 4th draw was a tease. | |
02-22-2014 08:17 PM
#160
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These spots happen. They suck bad. |
02-25-2014 10:28 AM
#161
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Did I play it right? | |
02-25-2014 12:00 PM
#162
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I definitely think you'd be well served to split 2-pair hands on the set. Otherwise, it looks good. | |
02-26-2014 11:09 AM
#163
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When you play the A up and the 3 to the mid, you have 8 live outs (three 3s, three 7s, two 8s) for the last draw. So, you not only are a significant favorite to make your hand on the last draw, the implied odds of your expectation in FL are giving you a huge overlay to make this play. Yes, you can safeguard your hand by not playing the A up on the thrid draw, but you are giving up 9 points for the AA on top and the bounty of FL when you are something like a 3:2 favorite to get there on the last draw. That's not the way to win at POFC. |
02-26-2014 11:28 AM
#164
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Did I play it right? |
02-26-2014 12:00 PM
#165
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denzel_dnzl, | |
Last edited by Eric; 02-26-2014 at 12:03 PM. | |
02-26-2014 12:18 PM
#166
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Yes, you are right. My point is that it's quite common to have less than 8 outs. Notably when you can't afford to make trips in the mid, which is more common than not. With 6 outs, you have ~55% equity in catching at least 1 out on the final draw. If you have 5 outs, then your equity is ~47% | |
02-26-2014 02:49 PM
#167
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denzel, I should have clarified that in this case quads are impossible since he has one of the four deuces. You must get a boat and that is tough. | |
03-01-2014 02:43 PM
#168
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Did I play it right? |
03-01-2014 02:55 PM
#169
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This is a tourney hand, so some things come into consideration that don't affect cash-game decisions. Because of the score and the late-game situation, you absolutely needed to make FL, so playing with that as the sole goal is the key. |
03-02-2014 06:49 PM
#170
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03-04-2014 08:32 PM
#171
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I switched gears in this pine hand, what do you think? | |
03-05-2014 12:34 AM
#172
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You'll have to run me through your thoughts, because there are a couple things that I don't really see the motivation for... so I don't know if I'm missing something in your strategy... perhaps something I should learn. | |
03-05-2014 03:34 PM
#173
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Did I set it right? | |
03-05-2014 04:01 PM
#174
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People might disagree about how to play this set, but I'd argue that there is almost never a reason to play AA in the bottom on the set. Remember, the main goal of POFC is to make FL. |
03-05-2014 04:19 PM
#175
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Phi and Vegas Dave are right, AA doesn't go in back. | |
03-05-2014 04:54 PM
#176
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K/AA2/4 | |
03-05-2014 05:32 PM
#177
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If our opponent isn't in fl and we get to see his cards then Phi's K/AA42/xxx line allows us to see more cards as we decide about the back. | |
03-05-2014 06:13 PM
#178
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Did I play it right? | |
03-05-2014 06:26 PM
#179
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I think securing against foul on 11th is far better than having "extra" outs up top. Having the bottom secured is points in the bank, and there's still a chance for the top to complete. | |
03-05-2014 06:33 PM
#180
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Did I set it right? |
03-05-2014 06:57 PM
#181
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zaggs67, what was your 14th card that was discarded? | |
03-08-2014 10:07 AM
#182
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Should I have set that ace mid on the 2nd draw? The other ace ended up coming later. | |
03-08-2014 11:11 AM
#183
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If you set the A in the mid, you have 3 outs to a pair of Aces. | |
03-08-2014 11:16 AM
#184
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03-09-2014 05:59 PM
#185
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I've been evolving on how I set some kinds of hands. I'm revisiting one hand type that I have been playing one way for a while. I'd love hearing how (and especially why) other people set these hands, which are very similar. |
03-09-2014 06:35 PM
#186
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Assuming all hands are played OOP, or IP with no blockers. | |
03-09-2014 07:10 PM
#187
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I typed this up before looking at what MMM said: | |
03-09-2014 11:18 PM
#188
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on the third draw do u set the king in front for fl and risk losing the ten pt quads royalties with a foul? | |
03-09-2014 11:59 PM
#189
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When you made the play, you had 7 outs with one draw to come, so you were just a shade less than 58% to make 2 pair or better in the mid. KK on top is 8 points and FL (I think we are assuming this value) is about 13 more. You're risking 10 points for a potential gain of 21 and you're 58% to get there. In a cash game, going for it is an easy decision. In a tourney, it would depend on the game situation. |
03-10-2014 02:47 PM
#190
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Did I play it right? |
03-10-2014 02:48 PM
#191
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Did I set it right? |
03-10-2014 03:18 PM
#192
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Did I play it right? |
03-10-2014 10:06 PM
#193
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Our opponent is in fl so we need to be aggressive. JJ in front is aggressive and we're being rewarded with 6 royalty points if we don't foul but I think it is the wrong play. I would try a set that leaves the door open for us to get to fl. | |
03-10-2014 10:09 PM
#194
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03-10-2014 11:26 PM
#195
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Did I play it right? |
03-10-2014 11:41 PM
#196
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HellRaiser81, | |
03-12-2014 02:20 PM
#197
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one of my fav games, does anyone play irish poker. You get 4 cards and you get rid of one after the flop and then |
03-12-2014 04:04 PM
#198
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03-12-2014 04:09 PM
#199
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Adjustments. Seeing a three in his hand, I don't want to set 33 in back. Setting 33 mid, I now set the ace in front instead of mid. What do you think? | |
03-12-2014 04:23 PM
#200
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03-12-2014 08:51 PM
#201
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03-13-2014 09:55 PM
#202
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Did I play it right? |
03-13-2014 10:04 PM
#203
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Did I play it right? |
03-13-2014 10:06 PM
#204
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Did I play it right? |
03-13-2014 10:09 PM
#205
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Did I play it right? |
03-13-2014 10:16 PM
#206
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Did I play it right? |
03-13-2014 10:17 PM
#207
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Did I play it right? |
03-13-2014 10:22 PM
#208
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Did I play it right? |
03-14-2014 03:08 AM
#209
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I'd argue that it's better to set xxx/86/933 because it increases your chances of making a boat or quads on the bottom (if you set a pair on the bottom UTG you'll catch at least one more of them roughly 35% of the time), which in turn increases your chances of making FL. If you take this line, on the first draw you set AQ on top and muck the J. On the second draw, the trip 3 goes on the bottom, you pair the 8 in the mid, and muck the deuce. On the third draw, you pair the A on top to set up FL and place the K in the mid. You only have 5 outs to make the draw (two 6s and three Ks, but the implied odds of getting the 9 point royalty on top and FL if the draw comes home make this the correct play). Happily, on the last draw, you make your hand, setting the K in the mid to make two pair, setting the 7 low, and mucking the 4. |
03-15-2014 04:47 PM
#210
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On the third draw I decided not to set for fl and risk missing out on my boat royalties with a foul. What do you think? | |
03-18-2014 11:44 AM
#211
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Did I play it right? |
03-18-2014 01:06 PM
#212
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Your line avoided fouling, and what I consider the "best" line fouled, so it might seem like the line you took "was better," but the goal is to make the plays with the highest expectation. |
Last edited by OneByPhi; 03-18-2014 at 01:08 PM. | |
03-18-2014 09:21 PM
#213
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Did I set it right? |
03-18-2014 10:05 PM
#214
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Really an interesting hand. I strongly agree that setting xxx/8/KQJT fails to get value out of the 2 FL cards you are dealt. Your route gives you lots of options: KK/flush/flush (opp shows no red cards), KK/straight/flush, KK/straight/straight, KK/2-pair/2-pair, etc. It's certainly a reasonble line. |
03-23-2014 07:13 PM
#215
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Did I play it right? |
03-26-2014 12:17 AM
#216
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Did I play it right? |
03-26-2014 01:45 AM
#217
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I'm not saying this is "right" or "best" but I'd start by setting K/A42/8. On the first draw, I'd play Q on top and 6 on bottom. On the second draw, I'd play the K on top to complete the FL pair and the 9 on the bottom. On the third draw, I'd realize I was up shit creek with a very flimsy paddle, but would play the T on bottom for a gutshot draw and the 3 for another gutshot in the mid (although an A is also an out if the bottom gutshot hits). On the 4th draw, I'd squeeze out the 7 to hit my bottom gutshot but foul when the mid didn't improve. |
04-02-2014 10:07 PM
#218
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Did I set it right? |
04-03-2014 12:14 PM
#219
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Your set seems reasonable to me. The plan is KK or QQ in front, AA in the mid, and a straight, 2-pair or trips in back. A case could be made for putting the Ace on top, setting A / 2 / 5 6 7 but that route requires more things to go right, as the plan then becomes AA/2-pair/straight or trips or if everything goes very well AA/2-pair smaller than 5s-up/straight, trips, or small 2-pair. Since you are UTG, I think the shape of the hand makes your set better. |
04-12-2014 04:57 PM
#220
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Did I play it right? |
04-12-2014 08:23 PM
#221
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It depends on what you mean by "right." If what you mean is that given your set and your play to the first draw, was it right to pass on making the flush on the 2nd draw, then, yes, I'd say that play was +EV. You'll catch another diamond or at least an A or 9 to make a straight on one of the last 2 draws so often that leaving yourself the chance to catch lightning in a bottle by pulling the Ad (which, after all, you did) is fine. The difference between 4 points for the KQJT8 flush and 25 for the royal is so great that risking making nothing on the bottom or even fouling is perfectly reasonable. |
04-15-2014 08:29 PM
#222
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Did I set it right? |
04-16-2014 09:37 PM
#223
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Should I have completed the boat? | |
04-28-2014 07:15 AM
#224
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Did I play it right? |
04-28-2014 10:04 AM
#225
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