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  1. #151
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    Splitting 2 pairs got me to fl early here.


    Eric



    Discard: 2 4 4 3


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 2 3 7 5
  2. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Splitting 2 pairs got me to fl early here.
    I know this is eastsidejohnny's preferred set, and this hand demonstrates why.
  3. #153
    Eric's Avatar
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    What do you think about the way I got there on this one? I'm thinking maybe it is better to set AA mid than front.

    Eric



    Discard: 2 A 5 2


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 3 3 4 9
  4. #154
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    Here's one where I didn't make it with AA mid.

    Eric



    Discard: A J 2 3


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 3 T 2 4
  5. #155
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    How do you guys set this?

    Eric
    X / 5 / 4 4 T 9

    Wazzup (dealer)
    Q / 7 / K K 2
  6. #156
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    How do you guys set this?

    Eric
    X / 5 / 4 4 T 9
    This is my standard choice:
    X / 4 4 5 / T 9
    It has it's trouble spots... I'm not convinced this is best.

    Sometimes I play it like this:
    X / 9 5 / 4 4 T
    It has the bonus of keeping the pair on the bottom, so I'm happy to make trips if the opportunity comes.

    My only critique of your play is that you've blocked yourself from boats/quads.
  7. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    This is my standard choice:
    X / 4 4 5 / T 9
    It has it's trouble spots... I'm not convinced this is best.
    This is my preferred set, too. I'll grant that it will sometimes miss out on big hands when one or both of the other 4s comes later, but I like it best because it often makes 2 small pair in the mid and the bottom can make Ts-up, 9s-up or some backdoor straight. I'm not absolutely convinced this is best, but I'd be happy to put my money on this set if you run out 1000 hands each, starting with xxx/5/44T9, xxx/95/44T, and xxx/445/T 9 and see what they can make.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    Sometimes I play it like this:
    X / 9 5 / 4 4 T
    It has the bonus of keeping the pair on the bottom, so I'm happy to make trips if the opportunity comes.
    I'm not insisting that I'm right about this, but this seems weaker than the set above. Yes, it does put the made pair low, but the mid is harder to work with. My instinct is that this set will either lead to fouling or a nothing top hand much more often than the previous set.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    My only critique of your play is that you've blocked yourself from boats/quads.
    Okay, I'll grant that this is pretty harsh, but I think setting xxx/5/4 4T9 is indefensible. Sure, the bottom will almost always make Ts-up, 9s-up, or trip 4s, but it can't make anything better than that, and the mid is much weaker than when you set 4 4 5 there.
    Last edited by OneByPhi; 02-19-2014 at 08:05 PM.
  8. #158
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    We'll have to get some bots going on this. I don't think my set is that much worse than the others because our main goal is fl as opposed to royalties. It's true that my set limits us to trips in back but it also leaves us a lot of room in the middle.
  9. #159
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    My 4th draw was a tease.

    Eric



    Discard: 3 4 3 A


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  10. #160
    These spots happen. They suck bad.
  11. #161
    Did I play it right?

    Sleepy20_98 (dealer)



    Discard: 9 3 J A


    Wazzup


  12. #162
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I definitely think you'd be well served to split 2-pair hands on the set. Otherwise, it looks good.

    I think your only real decision was on 11th. You had to decide whether to play the A to the top or mid. I think there's a good argument for both cases, but when everything in the middle is as live as can be, then I think that tips it to playing the A up top.
  13. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post

    I think your only real decision was on 11th. You had to decide whether to play the A to the top or mid. I think there's a good argument for both cases, but when everything in the middle is as live as can be, then I think that tips it to playing the A up top.
    When you play the A up and the 3 to the mid, you have 8 live outs (three 3s, three 7s, two 8s) for the last draw. So, you not only are a significant favorite to make your hand on the last draw, the implied odds of your expectation in FL are giving you a huge overlay to make this play. Yes, you can safeguard your hand by not playing the A up on the thrid draw, but you are giving up 9 points for the AA on top and the bounty of FL when you are something like a 3:2 favorite to get there on the last draw. That's not the way to win at POFC.
  14. #164
    Did I play it right?

    denzel_dnzl



    Discard: 8 T 5 6


    daniel.minciu (dealer)


  15. #165
    Eric's Avatar
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    denzel_dnzl,


    I think the 5 card set out of position is ok.


    On the first draw I would put the highest live card (8) down on the bottom with the deuces and one of the lower cards in the middle. I don't like the fact that you put 7 and 4 in the middle on your first draw. Now you must get a straight in the middle and a full house or quads on the bottom. This is not easy - it is better to leave more paths open such as 2 pair over 2 pair.
    Last edited by Eric; 02-26-2014 at 01:03 PM.
  16. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneByPhi View Post
    When you play the A up and the 3 to the mid, you have 8 live outs (three 3s, three 7s, two 8s) for the last draw. So, you not only are a significant favorite to make your hand on the last draw [...]
    Yes, you are right. My point is that it's quite common to have less than 8 outs. Notably when you can't afford to make trips in the mid, which is more common than not. With 6 outs, you have ~55% equity in catching at least 1 out on the final draw. If you have 5 outs, then your equity is ~47%

    Now, it is a common misconception that equity is as important as EV... which is false. Equity is only the chance of something happening, but EV combines the chance of something happening with the value of that occurrence.

    We can make a simple model for value by assuming that when an out is drawn, the value is 9 + 6 = 15. That assumes that when the draw comes in, Hero wins and sweeps. If we assume the value of missing the draw to be -6, then we have somewhere to start. Now, we're assuming that Villain does not foul, and that we will sweep if we win... so those are rather important assumptions, that don't apply to all cases.

    We want to know the minimum equity we need to make a +EV play when we pair the A's on top.
    Let this value be E. We want to solve for E.

    E*(15) + (1 - E)*(-6) > 0
    15E + 6E - 6 > 0
    21E > 6
    E > 6/21
    E > ~29%

    So, when protecting A's up top (value 9), Hero wants to have at least 29% equity, which translates to at least 3 outs. If Hero is protecting K's instead of A's (value 8), then 3 outs is too few; Hero would want at least 4 outs to make a +EV gamble.

    Again, this assumes that Villain does not foul, so this is an approximation, since the actual value of Hero fouling is greater than -6. Also, this assumes that Hero will sweep when Hero does not foul, which is rather a big deal. There is a swing of 5 - 7 points in there, and it all depends on the actual board to determine whether a sweep is likely.
  17. #167
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    denzel, I should have clarified that in this case quads are impossible since he has one of the four deuces. You must get a boat and that is tough.
  18. #168
    Did I play it right?

    OneByPhi





    dawgboy (dealer)



    Discard: 7 3 7 2
  19. #169
    This is a tourney hand, so some things come into consideration that don't affect cash-game decisions. Because of the score and the late-game situation, you absolutely needed to make FL, so playing with that as the sole goal is the key.

    Therefore, setting the Q on top instead of setting a 3-flush is clearly correct. Your goal on the set is to make qq/flush/flush, but any qq/2 pair/ 2 pair or qq/kk/2 pair or qq/kk/aa hand would do. The first draw isn't what you want, but you set a pair and a card that was live as far as you knew in the mid, which is your best play, I think. The second draw was just horrid. I would have set the 9 up and the 5 low, but it was such a bad draw that you were drawing ultra-thin anyway. The third draw kills your chance to make FL no matter how you play it. You did the best you could by setting the A low and bricking the top. The fourth draw was another set of bricks.

    I don't think you could have played the hand any better than you did for the situation you were in. This hand was sort of a microcosm of the match. You made pretty good decisions, the cards just didn't come for you. Better luck in your remaining games.
  20. #170
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    The first draw isn't what you want, but you set a pair and a card that was live as far as you knew in the mid, which is your best play, I think.
    1st Draw: I agree setting the pair of decues mid is a good play. I would have set the 7 mid instead of the T mid. This is because it is much easier to beat 2277 in back than 22TT if we have to abandon the back flush and set 2 pairs there.
  21. #171
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    I switched gears in this pine hand, what do you think?

    Eric



    Discard: Q 9 6 J


    Wazzup (dealer)


  22. #172
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    You'll have to run me through your thoughts, because there are a couple things that I don't really see the motivation for... so I don't know if I'm missing something in your strategy... perhaps something I should learn.

    Why did you play the J up top on the set?

    On 7th:
    Having played the 9 on the bottom for a FD, why discard a Q and play the 9 to the mid? The Q is both larger, and more live.

    On 9th:
    Why pass on the pair of 9's and play a 4 to the mid?

    On 11th:
    I think this is the best play, as the A in the mid secures the top. You can't be relying on 2 clubs on your final draw to complete a flush on the bottom at this point... also, 8's and 9's are dead, and the OESD is wide open.
  23. #173
    Did I set it right?

    miroslav.genchev.35
    T A J / 6 6 3 3 4 / 9 J 8 Q 2

    Sleepy20_98 (dealer)
    2 / 4 K / A A
  24. #174
    People might disagree about how to play this set, but I'd argue that there is almost never a reason to play AA in the bottom on the set. Remember, the main goal of POFC is to make FL.

    From the way you presented this, I'm going to assume your opponent is in FL, so you are setting without any information about what cards are live. With that in mind, I'd set this K/AA42/xxx. The goal is to catch another K on top (although if you catch a Q before you catch a K, you'd place it there, and have the chance to make either KK or QQ on top), and to make any hand that beats AA on the bottom.

    Some good players might set K/AA/42, but I'm not as fond of this option because it gives you much less flexibility with the bottom hand. The advantage of this line is that it lets you throw bricks into the mid--it's always nice to have a place to get rid of useless cards without hurting your chance to make FL. The disadvatage is that you're pretty much limited to making some combination of 4s and/or 2s (2-pair, trips, boat) or a baby straight, but if you catch only one of those cards on the first draw, it can close the door on the other options.

    My set lets you adapt to what the first draw brings. Say you get a lucky first draw like T93. Putting the T9 in the bottom leaves you open for the 2-pair/trips/boat line, or a straight draw, or a flush draw. But even if you draw something like Q87. you can put the Q on top, play the 8 low and have a lot of flexibiltiy for the second draw.
  25. #175
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    Phi and Vegas Dave are right, AA doesn't go in back.
  26. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneByPhi View Post
    People might disagree about how to play this set, but I'd argue that there is almost never a reason to play AA in the bottom on the set. Remember, the main goal of POFC is to make FL.

    From the way you presented this, I'm going to assume your opponent is in FL, so you are setting without any information about what cards are live. With that in mind, I'd set this K/AA42/xxx. The goal is to catch another K on top (although if you catch a Q before you catch a K, you'd place it there, and have the chance to make either KK or QQ on top), and to make any hand that beats AA on the bottom.

    Some good players might set K/AA/42, but I'm not as fond of this option because it gives you much less flexibility with the bottom hand. The advantage of this line is that it lets you throw bricks into the mid--it's always nice to have a place to get rid of useless cards without hurting your chance to make FL. The disadvatage is that you're pretty much limited to making some combination of 4s and/or 2s (2-pair, trips, boat) or a baby straight, but if you catch only one of those cards on the first draw, it can close the door on the other options.

    My set lets you adapt to what the first draw brings. Say you get a lucky first draw like T93. Putting the T9 in the bottom leaves you open for the 2-pair/trips/boat line, or a straight draw, or a flush draw. But even if you draw something like Q87. you can put the Q on top, play the 8 low and have a lot of flexibiltiy for the second draw.
    K/AA2/4

    Get the bottom started early. Having burn slots in the mid is hugely valuable. It would be preferable to start the bottom with a 5,6, or 7 for maximum straight options, but that means playing a 4 is equivalent to playing an 8... and I see you like placing an 8 on the bottom, so...
  27. #177
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    If our opponent isn't in fl and we get to see his cards then Phi's K/AA42/xxx line allows us to see more cards as we decide about the back.

    We're blind here and I'd set at least the 4 in back like MMM said and maybe both the 4 and the 2.

    The important thing is that we set the aces in the middle and the king on top. Those are the major decisions we have to get right. These other decisions are less important imo.
  28. #178
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    Did I play it right?

    3rd draw I was tempted to set Q front and J back. I would have gotten to fl. What do you think?

    Eric



    Discard: 5 4 Q 4


    Ctrevino (dealer)


  29. #179
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I think securing against foul on 11th is far better than having "extra" outs up top. Having the bottom secured is points in the bank, and there's still a chance for the top to complete.

    If you'd have played the Q top and J bottom, then you have 5 outs up top and 7 outs on the bottom. Either one is OK, but needing both on the final draw is not going to work out in your favor too often. A rough estimate puts 5 outs as 47% and 7 outs as 61%. You need both to occur, so multiplying them together is the approximation. That's less than 30% to hit FL, with a ~40% chance of foul.
  30. #180
    Did I set it right?

    zaggs67
    7 9 Q / A K Q J T / 8 T 5 2 J

    Wazzup (dealer)
    3 / 9 6 / A 2
  31. #181
    Eric's Avatar
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    zaggs67, what was your 14th card that was discarded?
  32. #182
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    Should I have set that ace mid on the 2nd draw? The other ace ended up coming later.

    Eric



    Discard: 3 A 2 9


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  33. #183
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Should I have set that ace mid on the 2nd draw? The other ace ended up coming later.
    If you set the A in the mid, you have 3 outs to a pair of Aces.
    If you set the pair of 8's in the mid, you have 6 outs to 2-pair, and 2 more outs to trips.

    So setting the 8's gives you 2 x the chances to cover the K's up top, and even has a backdoor to a stronger hand, if the bottom catches a T.
  34. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    So setting the 8's gives you 2 x the chances to cover the K's up top, and even has a backdoor to a stronger hand, if the bottom catches a T.
    Cool, I'm glad I played it right.
  35. #185
    I've been evolving on how I set some kinds of hands. I'm revisiting one hand type that I have been playing one way for a while. I'd love hearing how (and especially why) other people set these hands, which are very similar.

    Hand 1:

    Hand 2:

    Hand 3:
  36. #186
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Assuming all hands are played OOP, or IP with no blockers.

    Hand 1) Q/34/22
    Q up top for FL possibilities.
    Pair goes to the bottom for max chances at trips+
    Kickers are too small to give any strength to the bottom. They can't cover much if I get 2 pair in the mid, since first pair on the bottom is 2's, I need a strong kicker. Small live cards in the mid is a key component to pulling off a beatable 2-pair to cover the potential Q's+ up top.

    Hand 2) X/34/227
    Leave top open to improve or catch a burn card when no FL card comes on the set.
    Pair goes to the bottom for max chances at trips+
    This time, the 7 goes to the bottom. It's less than ideal as a kicker, implicitly drawing the line for "big cards" as J - 7,2 leaving 6 - 3 as "small cards". I generally prefer to have a more balanced play, but I don't like dropping 3 to the mid with no pair, and I don't like leaving the bottom w/o a live kicker, so I put the 7 there.

    If the 7 were a 6, I'd strongly consider playing as a burn to the top.
    If the 7 were a 5, I'd set the OESD on the bottom, and drop the extra 2 in the mid.

    Hand 3) A/34/22
    FL card up top
    Same logic as hand 1.
  37. #187
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    I typed this up before looking at what MMM said:


    1: Q / 34 / 22


    2: X / 34 / 722


    3: Either A / 34 / 22 or X / A34 / 22


    It is interesting that it came out the same.


    I think you guys are right that there will be some luck in our league since we all kind of play the same way.
  38. #188
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    on the third draw do u set the king in front for fl and risk losing the ten pt quads royalties with a foul?

    Eric



    Discard: 2 Q Q K


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 4 9 J 6
  39. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    on the third draw do u set the king in front for fl and risk losing the ten pt quads royalties with a foul?
    When you made the play, you had 7 outs with one draw to come, so you were just a shade less than 58% to make 2 pair or better in the mid. KK on top is 8 points and FL (I think we are assuming this value) is about 13 more. You're risking 10 points for a potential gain of 21 and you're 58% to get there. In a cash game, going for it is an easy decision. In a tourney, it would depend on the game situation.
  40. #190
    Did I play it right?

    ben.neimqn





    zaggs67 (dealer)



    Discard: 8 2 8 7
  41. #191
    Did I set it right?

    ben.neimqn
    A A K / 7 7 T 3 3 / 5 5 Q Q J

    zaggs67 (dealer)
    J J / X / 2 4 5
  42. #192
    Did I play it right?

    ben.neimqn





    zaggs67 (dealer)



    Discard: 2 A 3 5
  43. #193
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaggs67 View Post
    Did I set it right?

    ben.neimqn
    A A K / 7 7 T 3 3 / 5 5 Q Q J

    zaggs67 (dealer)
    J J / X / 2 4 5
    Our opponent is in fl so we need to be aggressive. JJ in front is aggressive and we're being rewarded with 6 royalty points if we don't foul but I think it is the wrong play. I would try a set that leaves the door open for us to get to fl.

    I would probably set X / 2 4 / J J 5
  44. #194
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zaggs67 View Post
    Did I play it right?

    ben.neimqn





    zaggs67 (dealer)



    Discard: 2 A 3 5
    Our opponent has a strong set with Q / KK / 88. He has no diamonds and we have 3. Also, there is only 1 more queen left.

    I would set the 3 flush on bottom: X / 6 7 / 8 T Q
  45. #195
    Did I play it right?

    HellRaiser81 (dealer)



    Discard: 8 3 4 2


    adrian.bln


  46. #196
    Eric's Avatar
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    HellRaiser81,


    For some reason this hand history didn't come through correctly.


    We don't see what cards your opponent displayed after the first 5.


    Do you have the table number so we can look in more detail?


    I probably would have done the 5 card set like this:
    X / 8 6 / 9 9 T


    Beyond the 5 card set, it would be good to see the cards shown by your opponent to give good advice.


    Cheers,
    Eric
  47. #197
    one of my fav games, does anyone play irish poker. You get 4 cards and you get rid of one after the flop and then
    another after the turn. Wild game.
  48. #198
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttwarrior1 View Post
    one of my fav games, does anyone play irish poker. You get 4 cards and you get rid of one after the flop and then
    another after the turn. Wild game.
    No, I haven't tried Irish. Sounds cool though.
  49. #199
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    Adjustments. Seeing a three in his hand, I don't want to set 33 in back. Setting 33 mid, I now set the ace in front instead of mid. What do you think?

    Eric (dealer)



    Discard: J K 5 J


    Wazzup



    Discard: 4 5 8 4
  50. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    What do you think?
    If there was any way to have played this better at any stage of the hand, I don't see it.
  51. #201
    Eric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneByPhi View Post
    If there was any way to have played this better at any stage of the hand, I don't see it.
    Awesome, that means a lot coming from you.
  52. #202
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333 (dealer)



    Discard: 2 J 3 Q


    Wazzup



    Discard: 4 3 4 2
  53. #203
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333 (dealer)



    Discard: 7 8 9 5


    Wazzup



    Discard: 5 Q 5 6
  54. #204
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333



    Discard: 7 K 6 2


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 2 4 5 9
  55. #205
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333



    Discard: 4 5 8 4


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 4 3 7 3
  56. #206
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333



    Discard: 6 2 6 7


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 4 5 5 9
  57. #207
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333 (dealer)



    Discard: 2 6 2 6


    Wazzup



    Discard: 2 4 3 7
  58. #208
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333



    Discard: J 2 5 4


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 4 2 2 4
  59. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Voland333 View Post
    Did I play it right?

    Voland333



    Discard: J 2 5 4


    Wazzup (dealer)



    Discard: 4 2 2 4
    I'd argue that it's better to set xxx/86/933 because it increases your chances of making a boat or quads on the bottom (if you set a pair on the bottom UTG you'll catch at least one more of them roughly 35% of the time), which in turn increases your chances of making FL. If you take this line, on the first draw you set AQ on top and muck the J. On the second draw, the trip 3 goes on the bottom, you pair the 8 in the mid, and muck the deuce. On the third draw, you pair the A on top to set up FL and place the K in the mid. You only have 5 outs to make the draw (two 6s and three Ks, but the implied odds of getting the 9 point royalty on top and FL if the draw comes home make this the correct play). Happily, on the last draw, you make your hand, setting the K in the mid to make two pair, setting the 7 low, and mucking the 4.

    You final hand is


  60. #210
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    On the third draw I decided not to set for fl and risk missing out on my boat royalties with a foul. What do you think?


    Eric (dealer)



    Discard: T 2 Q 3


    Wazzup



    Discard: 8 5 J 5
  61. #211
    Did I play it right?

    schmondex





    zaggs67 (dealer)



    Discard: 2 4 7 4
  62. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by zaggs67 View Post
    Did I play it right?

    schmondex





    zaggs67 (dealer)



    Discard: 2 4 7 4
    Your line avoided fouling, and what I consider the "best" line fouled, so it might seem like the line you took "was better," but the goal is to make the plays with the highest expectation.

    It would be better to set K/42/TT. With only a few exceptions, a single FL card in the starting hand, should go on top. When the first draw comes JJ2, the Js go to the bottom to make 2 pair, and the 2 goes to the muck. When the second draw comes K64, the K goes on top to make an FL pair, the 4 goes to the mid to make 1 pair, and the 6 goes to the muck. When the third draw comes Q73, the 7 goes in the mid (there are two live 7s, but only one live 3), you brick off the top with the Q, and muck the 3. When the fourth draw comes A84, you can't make a hand. The third 4 for the mid doesn't help because you can't improve the 2-pair in the bottom.

    But that doesn't make this line "wrong." After the second draw you have




    and have a strong FL draw. Even after bricking the third draw, when you have




    you still have 4+ live outs (two 2s and two 7s, plus the slim chance of hitting both a boat card for the bottom and a 4), so you will make your hand roughly 38% of the time. And the 8 points for the Ks on top plus the expected bonanza from FL make this line profitable over the long haul.
    Last edited by OneByPhi; 03-18-2014 at 01:08 PM.
  63. #213
    Did I set it right?

    dawgboy (dealer)
    K / J 8 / Q T

    schmondex
    X / Q 2 / 6 4 2
  64. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by dawgboy View Post
    Did I set it right?

    dawgboy (dealer)
    K / J 8 / Q T

    schmondex
    X / Q 2 / 6 4 2
    Really an interesting hand. I strongly agree that setting xxx/8/KQJT fails to get value out of the 2 FL cards you are dealt. Your route gives you lots of options: KK/flush/flush (opp shows no red cards), KK/straight/flush, KK/straight/straight, KK/2-pair/2-pair, etc. It's certainly a reasonble line.

    There are so many defensible lines. KQ/8/JT has its charms, KQ/T/J8 keeps the flush and straight options on the bottom, even KQ/xxx/JT8 seems playable. This is one of those hands that shows the richness of POFC. Good players could choose very different lines and make a rational case for them.

    What happened in the actual deal?
  65. #215
    Did I play it right?

    maxbyrne (dealer)



    Discard: 2 3 6 6


    GbinijesShoe



    Discard: 3 A 5 4
  66. #216
    Did I play it right?

    ImSavy (dealer)





    zaggs67



    Discard: 5 8 6 7
  67. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by zaggs67 View Post
    Did I play it right?
    zaggs67



    Discard: 5 8 6 7
    I'm not saying this is "right" or "best" but I'd start by setting K/A42/8. On the first draw, I'd play Q on top and 6 on bottom. On the second draw, I'd play the K on top to complete the FL pair and the 9 on the bottom. On the third draw, I'd realize I was up shit creek with a very flimsy paddle, but would play the T on bottom for a gutshot draw and the 3 for another gutshot in the mid (although an A is also an out if the bottom gutshot hits). On the 4th draw, I'd squeeze out the 7 to hit my bottom gutshot but foul when the mid didn't improve.

    My route fouled too, but this set gives you a much better chance at FL, even if the cards didn't come this time.
  68. #218
    Did I set it right?

    maxbyrne (dealer)
    X / X / X

    zaggs67
    X / 2 A / 5 6 7
  69. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by zaggs67 View Post
    Did I set it right?

    maxbyrne (dealer)
    X / X / X

    zaggs67
    X / 2 A / 5 6 7
    Your set seems reasonable to me. The plan is KK or QQ in front, AA in the mid, and a straight, 2-pair or trips in back. A case could be made for putting the Ace on top, setting A / 2 / 5 6 7 but that route requires more things to go right, as the plan then becomes AA/2-pair/straight or trips or if everything goes very well AA/2-pair smaller than 5s-up/straight, trips, or small 2-pair. Since you are UTG, I think the shape of the hand makes your set better.
  70. #220
    Did I play it right?

    dawgboy (dealer)



    Discard: 8 7 3 2


    BaldBullBot



    Discard: T 8 8 7
  71. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by dawgboy View Post
    Did I play it right?

    dawgboy (dealer)



    Discard: 8 7 3 2
    It depends on what you mean by "right." If what you mean is that given your set and your play to the first draw, was it right to pass on making the flush on the 2nd draw, then, yes, I'd say that play was +EV. You'll catch another diamond or at least an A or 9 to make a straight on one of the last 2 draws so often that leaving yourself the chance to catch lightning in a bottle by pulling the Ad (which, after all, you did) is fine. The difference between 4 points for the KQJT8 flush and 25 for the royal is so great that risking making nothing on the bottom or even fouling is perfectly reasonable.


    But there's another issue to consider: was the set the most +EV play you had? You certainly couldn't have done better with the cards that came than the royal flush you made on the bottom. Still, I would have set



    and with the cards that came, I would have done much worse. But you set not knowing what will come, and making a royal after starting with 3 of them doesn't happen very often, but making FL from the set that I would have made happens pretty often.
  72. #222
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    4,595
    Location
    UK
    Did I set it right?

    Keith
    7 7 7 / Q Q 6 6 6 / A 2 3 4 5

    BaldBullBot (dealer)
    X / 6 T / 4 T J

    does it make any difference on royaltys whether i put the trip 6's or 7 up top?
  73. #223
    Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Should I have completed the boat?

    Eric



    Discard: Q 6 9 7


    BaldBullBot (dealer)



    Discard: K 9 6 4
  74. #224
    Did I play it right?

    Losartan



    Discard: 6 7 6 5


    GlassJoeBot (dealer)



    Discard: 2 6 4 3
  75. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    Did I set it right?

    Keith
    7 7 7 / Q Q 6 6 6 / A 2 3 4 5

    BaldBullBot (dealer)
    X / 6 T / 4 T J

    does it make any difference on royaltys whether i put the trip 6's or 7 up top?
    Yep, 666 is worth 14 in royalties and 777 is 15.

    The algorithm for top royalties is easy--"Value" below means the value of the card (2 = 2, 3 = 3, ... A = 14):

    for pairs: if value > 5, royalties = value - 5
    for trips: royalties = value + 8

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