NL/PL 5CD anyone playing this?

I've been dabbling in the NL50 5CD games. Its been rather interesting converting my 5max limit game over to the 6max NL format. A few things I've noticed.

1.) Almost everyone is willing to go broke with any set, I was even re-raised after standing pat by QQQ

2.) Position helps a lot

3.) small 2 pairs are a lot harder to play, refer to #2.

4) bigger flush and straight draws can now be played. In limit, the odds where really never there unless you were completing the SB or calling a raise in a multiway pot from the BB.

5.) It seems players are ALOT more willing to put money in the pot predraw then postdraw. Raise it up and play aggressive predraw, and not passive, but somewhat more passive postdraw.

In the 5max games I was sticking with

UTG KK
CO JJ
BT 99

or better as my openers. This is pretty much what I am doing now and just opening UTG with AA or better. Blind play I'm totally quite sure about. Calling raises I'm still not sure about. Typically in NL games you have more implied odds but with 2 betting rounds its no where near what a game like hold'em. Anyone have some thoughts to add to this? Maybe we will polish the conversation up into a guide for FTR on 5CD.

I don't know that I have much to add, but I just dabbled in it last night and what I experienced pretty much mirrors your experience.

I think it might be worthwhile to try to go the Mike Caro route for this game and try to foster a wacky table image - LAGG it up a bit, if you will. Almost everyone seemed like a passive nit postdraw unless they improved - the highest action occurring when there was a flush over flush over set or something (why the set couldn't fold, I don't know). But often there would be three people drawing three - and it would check around. Being aggressive with position both predraw and postdraw may be able to get you some pots uncontested, but I don't know what happens after people pick up on what you're doing. Nth level them, I guess.

Then again, it seems most people are so bad at this that it's unnecessary to go wacky.

My biggest problem is that I don't really know what to bet postdraw. Often, I'm doing 2/3 pot or something when I think I'm ahead. A lot of people, currently, seem to have the same problem - but they'll minbet (I guess that's where that comes from in holdem too).

If anyone has a good handle on this game, I'd really like to see a strat guide (or even just limit -- though starting hands will get you a long way there. And if you know limit holdem, it seems there are many analogue situations, so it's not terribly hard to figure out. It would still be neat to see a limit guide if anyone has the time (or maybe after I play a lot more, I'll start one)).

im a good winner in the limit games but i have really struggled with the pl games especially (havent played much NLdraw)

Fwiw, i think limit draw is easy to beat playing tight and always assuming opps play their cards face up. In pl? I have no idea...

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

I've been dabbling in the NL50 5CD games. Its been rather interesting converting my 5max limit game over to the 6max NL format. A few things I've noticed.

1.) Almost everyone is willing to go broke with any set, I was even re-raised after standing pat by QQQ

2.) Position helps a lot

3.) small 2 pairs are a lot harder to play, refer to #2.

4) bigger flush and straight draws can now be played. In limit, the odds where really never there unless you were completing the SB or calling a raise in a multiway pot from the BB.

5.) It seems players are ALOT more willing to put money in the pot predraw then postdraw. Raise it up and play aggressive predraw, and not passive, but somewhat more passive postdraw.

In the 5max games I was sticking with

UTG KK
CO JJ
BT 99

or better as my openers. This is pretty much what I am doing now and just opening UTG with AA or better. Blind play I'm totally quite sure about. Calling raises I'm still not sure about. Typically in NL games you have more implied odds but with 2 betting rounds its no where near what a game like hold'em. Anyone have some thoughts to add to this? Maybe we will polish the conversation up into a guide for FTR on 5CD.

Been playing the games (pot limit) less then a week and am very hopeful. Players seem really bad.

My thoughts-
(1) "1.) Almost everyone is willing to go broke with any set, I was even re-raised after standing pat by QQQ " I have yet to see the standpat bluff. In their defense I would say that 90% of the time you have a set its good. And I've seen players willing to go broke POST DRAW with just pocket aces.
(2) "2.) Position helps a lot" I actually think I've felt the power of position here more then any other game.
(3) "3.) small 2 pairs are a lot harder to play, refer to #2." I find that I raise them preflop from any position regardless of what 2. If I don't improve checking/betting/folding is simply a matter of (1) how many people called, (2) how many cards they discarded (3) what is my table image (4) how high is my two pair and (5) what are the odds they'll call with a worse hand. Out of position I'm usually fine with raising PF and checking post flop and hoping it stood up.
(4) "bigger flush and straight draws can now be played. In limit, the odds where really never there unless you were completing the SB or calling a raise in a multiway pot from the BB." At least at PL I think this is wrong. I think quite often you make your hand and don't get paid off. I find most people don't bluff. If someone draws 1 card and bets post draw they almost always have a straight or better. They only make money if they happened to be HU against someone who cont. bets and can't lay down trips. But rarely do I see them making better then 1 psb but often no additional money. If the pot gets really big then there hand is likely vulnerable.
(5) "5.) It seems players are ALOT more willing to put money in the pot predraw then postdraw. Raise it up and play aggressive predraw, and not passive, but somewhat more passive postdraw." Agreed. Monster pots postflop seem relatively rare.

I think there must be an art to playing OOP. I have a ways to go. I think the hardest part of the game is when to value bet and when to call. I think there's more feel to this game then any other... folding 2 pair post draw to one player while calling another player with a pair of jacks post draw.

Been playing the games (pot limit) less then a week and am very hopeful. Players seem really bad.

My thoughts-
(1) "1.) Almost everyone is willing to go broke with any set, I was even re-raised after standing pat by QQQ " I have yet to see the standpat bluff. In their defense I would say that 90% of the time you have a set its good. And I've seen players willing to go broke POST DRAW with just pocket aces.
(2) "2.) Position helps a lot" I actually think I've felt the power of position here more then any other game.
(3) "3.) small 2 pairs are a lot harder to play, refer to #2." I find that I raise them preflop from any position regardless of what 2. If I don't improve checking/betting/folding is simply a matter of (1) how many people called, (2) how many cards they discarded (3) what is my table image (4) how high is my two pair and (5) what are the odds they'll call with a worse hand. Out of position I'm usually fine with raising PF and checking post flop and hoping it stood up.
(4) "bigger flush and straight draws can now be played. In limit, the odds where really never there unless you were completing the SB or calling a raise in a multiway pot from the BB." At least at PL I think this is wrong. I think quite often you make your hand and don't get paid off. I find most people don't bluff. If someone draws 1 card and bets post draw they almost always have a straight or better. They only make money if they happened to be HU against someone who cont. bets and can't lay down trips. But rarely do I see them making better then 1 psb but often no additional money. If the pot gets really big then there hand is likely vulnerable.
(5) "5.) It seems players are ALOT more willing to put money in the pot predraw then postdraw. Raise it up and play aggressive predraw, and not passive, but somewhat more passive postdraw." Agreed. Monster pots postflop seem relatively rare.

I think there must be an art to playing OOP. I have a ways to go. I think the hardest part of the game is when to value bet and when to call. I think there's more feel to this game then any other... folding 2 pair post draw to one player while calling another player with a pair of jacks post draw.