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Help with Omaha H/L

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  1. #1
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    Default Help with Omaha H/L

    Hi Everyone,

    I've been playing more Omaha H/L the past couple of weeks and been pretty successful however I'm just playing nuts hands and a lot of player just go all in with nut low so that's where I quarter or scoop them. I want to learn more. Any suggestions for books or players I can follow who are experienced playing this game?

    Thanks in advance
  2. #2
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    Default thanks you guys

    On review, I think that I wouldn't have put them on a set anyway. Villain didn't raise OTF and checked the turn, so even though it's not impossible that they don't have a set, it is also possible that a player like this will call my raise OTR with any flush, straight and maybe even stuff like two pair and TPTK.. . . . . .
  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by aksheykumar View Post
    On review, I think that I wouldn't have put them on a set anyway. Villain didn't raise OTF and checked the turn, so even though it's not impossible that they don't have a set, it is also possible that a player like this will call my raise OTR with any flush, straight and maybe even stuff like two pair and TPTK.. . . . . .
    the above is a blatant cut and paste of the second paragraph of this post at 2+2 and makes no sense in the context of this thread either.
    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=17213
  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJfan10 View Post
    Hi Everyone,

    I've been playing more Omaha H/L the past couple of weeks and been pretty successful however I'm just playing nuts hands and a lot of player just go all in with nut low so that's where I quarter or scoop them. I want to learn more. Any suggestions for books or players I can follow who are experienced playing this game?

    Thanks in advance
    There's some brilliant stuff about H/L games in general in Super System by Doyle Brunson, but the book is old and there are more current sources of information. Also, Super System covers a lot of poker games, and you may want something specifically for PLO8.

    I'm sure someone has written about PLO8, but I can't think of any names.

    ***
    The general thing to know is that those guys going all-in with nut-low and now high hand are total fish and you're doing well to notice how brutal those hands are for them.

    A) When they win, they win 1/2 the pot, so they need multiple opponents to call.
    B) They may have the nut low, but they can never block anyone else from having it, so sometimes when they win, they get 1/4 or less of the pot.
    C) An EV calc of those situations will show that they are basically pissing away all their winning on those hands which generally are break-even at best, and losing most of the time.

    It's OK to let them steal some pots from you with their shoves. YOU are not playing their game of 1/2 pot poker. YOU are playing for the scoop, or folding out 95% of the time.

    H/L games are about the scoop. Play for the scoop and don't over-value 1/2 pot wins, especially when that 1/2 can be split.
    I mean, there are many times where you can have the nut-high hand that blocks anyone else from having it. If you have the nut flush, and the board is not paired, then you will win the high pot. You know this. There is no situation where you can know that you're not splitting the bottom.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith View Post
    the above is a blatant cut and paste of the second paragraph of this post at 2+2 and makes no sense in the context of this thread either.
    http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ostcount=17213
    "The harder you work, the luckier you get." ~ courtesy of my fortune cookie from china king

    "One of the best pieces of advice I've ever read in this forum was three words long...

    bet fucking fold." Ong
  6. #6
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    Thanks MMM

    Your post says it all. The game is all about the scoop. I don't mind limping in with A2xx if my A is suited and I'm in position. Having 4 cards to start with I find it's all about combination. Do my 4 cards work well together to win both the high and the low. I've found some stuff online about this game and I will ask my friends if they have a copy of Super System for me to read. I'm really starting to like O8 H/L much more then texas holdem. As I read and find for information about this game I will posted it on this thread.
  7. #7
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    I'm no master of PLO8, but my gut says that you need to stop limping.

    Play tighter ranges than your opponents and open the pot when you do.

    You definitely want strong, connected hands from EP, but many hands end with no low pot due to only 1 or 2 low cards on the board.

    Hands like QJT9, and 1-gappers like QT98 or JT87 can be quite good to play from CO/BTN when you have position. You just have to remember that you're unlikely to have the absolute nuts with these hands... you can chop straights and 2-pairs (which will lose to sets) and you're just about never winning with a flush.

    So play those hands IP and don't be afraid to run from low boards or big bets.
  8. #8
    NLO8 / PLO8 is great game, mainly because games are so soft which is in main part true because there's so little good books or other material from them. Even with just playing AAxx and most A2xx hands you can score rather good profit in tournament games.

    Haven't played cash though. I would believe that rake is like hell in those with all the split pots.
  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey View Post
    I'm no master of PLO8, but my gut says that you need to stop limping.

    Play tighter ranges than your opponents and open the pot when you do.

    You definitely want strong, connected hands from EP, but many hands end with no low pot due to only 1 or 2 low cards on the board.

    Hands like QJT9, and 1-gappers like QT98 or JT87 can be quite good to play from CO/BTN when you have position. You just have to remember that you're unlikely to have the absolute nuts with these hands... you can chop straights and 2-pairs (which will lose to sets) and you're just about never winning with a flush.

    So play those hands IP and don't be afraid to run from low boards or big bets.
    I find 4 connecting cards better for PLO not PLO8. I want hands that have the high probability of winning High and Low hands although I have to say I will call a small raise on button with that type of hand looking for a high flop. I learned from playing with friend before online the A is the most important card as it plays for both the high and the low. Without it your hand isn't as strong.

    Your right about me limping as I do limp a lot when I'm out of position. I prefer to raise with strong starting hands only when I have position. My how much I raise will depend on the number of limpers in the pot. I've also learned to fold SB with bad starting hands and save my chips for the next game.

    I have a lot more to learn. The more I learn the more I will share and I have a long way to go.
  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farseer View Post
    NLO8 / PLO8 is great game, mainly because games are so soft which is in main part true because there's so little good books or other material from them. Even with just playing AAxx and most A2xx hands you can score rather good profit in tournament games.

    Haven't played cash though. I would believe that rake is like hell in those with all the split pots.
    I haven't played any tournament yet however I've cashed 4 out of 5 S&G. I like playing the cash tables for now as I'm just starting to build my bankroll. I don't think the rake is that bad on PS. Playing 2NLO8 I think the rake is 3.3% and 5NLO8 3.9%. Yes it is easy to get a lot of FPP but that helps me with my VPP status. I'm now a chrome star and can play the $5000 weekly freeroll. If I multi-table I'm sure getting silver star is very achievable and more rewards would be available.
  11. #11
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    Hi all,

    I've played some Omaha H/L today and reviewed some hands. I wanted to share this hand that I thought was interesting. I'm playing Zoom 2NL Omaha H/L on PS and don't have that many notes on my opponents. After a session I try review as many hands as possible and put notes on players. These two players I'm sure I've played before but don't have any notes.

    Being on the button, I though my hand was average at best A356 double suited. I'm not a fan of these low hands however today has been one of those days where nothing could go wrong so I call the raise. I figure, if the flop is low I have a chance of getting the straight to the 6 and nut low and maybe quarter someone. If the flop was high, I can fold and only lose $.06 (I'm up for the day and running hot) so I took the risk and called.

    I thought the flop was OK, I flop the nut flush draw, 2nd best low hand and open ended for the straight. The villian put in a small bet and I thought I had a good hand to call a small bet. Then the turn came J. The villian changed their play and just went all in. I can't tell if he got the nut high hand (straight to the J) or nut low hand and trying to steal the pot.

    Do I have odds to call? Flush draw, 2nd best low hand made..... I found some online Omaha H/L odds calculators but I rather get an opinion for other Omaha H/L players.

    PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.02 BB (6 handed) -

    Hero (Button) ($2.61)
    SB ($2.37)
    BB ($2.45)
    UTG ($2.47)
    MP ($2.30)
    CO ($1.91)

    Preflop: Hero is Button with 5c, As, 6s, 3c
    UTG calls $0.02, Villian raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.06, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.04

    Flop: ($0.21) 5h, 8s, 7s (3 players)
    UTG checks, Villian bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06

    Turn: ($0.39) Jd (3 players)
    UTG checks, Villian bets $2.18 (All-In)
  12. #12
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    EZ fold.

    That's a sick 5.5x PSB.

    If you don't know that Villain is wider than the nuts, then you simply only call with the nuts.

    Set EV greater than or equal to 0.
    Let X be equity.
    EV = 6.5X - 5.5(1-X) = 6.5X - 5.5 + 5.5X = 12X - 5.5 >= 0
    X >= 5.5/12 ~= 45.8%
    You need at least 45.8% equity to call.

    Villain is someone you have hands on, but no reads. What does that tell you? I bet it tells you something.
    For me and my note-taking style, that means that he's never done anything that makes him stand out from the player pool, and all his shown hands were played sensibly (IMO).

    Anyway. This Villain has T9, and hit the nut straight OTT. Maybe has nut low, as well, but maybe not.
    I mean maybe he's got something else, but I'd say almost any sensible Villain doing this has the T9 here.

    I'd fold with a chuckle, knowing I just saved money. Let him keep pulling that 5x PSB overbet against me, though. That's gonna print me $$ every time I see it. Either he does it with the nuts, or he's doing it way too wide. It's not going to take too many hands to see his frequency and adjust to either keep folding w/o the nuts or start calling with near-nut hands.

    Either way, calling with a pair of 5's and NFD OTT for high hand is almost always a no. You don't even have the nut low, so considering a call here is just a waste of time, IMO.

    I mean. You're considering making a Hero-call here and you don't even have either half of the pot locked down to prepare for a scoop. You are almost never scooping this pot when you call. Just fold.
  13. #13
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    Playing Omaha H/L, I don't mind seeing cheap flops and if I have a lot of draws I don't mind seeing cheap turns. The over bet tells me he either has the nuts high and afraid of the flush draw with a weak low hand. Possible nut H & L but if they did I think they make a mistake just going all in. Funny thing is I see a lot of players just going ALL in on the turn with nuts low and nothing for the high. At the 2NL level a lot of player will do that and that's how I make my money quartering them.

    Looking back at the hand, agree easy fold. That's what I did. I will try to find a more challanging hand in the future to post.

    The one thing I don't understand it the calculation you did above.
  14. #14
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJfan10 View Post
    The one thing I don't understand it the calculation you did above.
    It's a very simple EV calc.

    READ THIS

    You must click the links and follow those links (it sounds like a lot, but it's just well organized). I promise you that it is straight-forward and step-by-step. You will be making smarter poker decisions and printing $$ with those decisions in only a couple of hours at most.


    Respond in the thread I linked you to with any questions.
  15. #15
    MadMojoMonkey's Avatar
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    Also answer this:

    Villain is someone you have hands on, but no reads. What does that tell you? I bet it tells you something.
  16. #16
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    Hi all,

    So I played some 2NO8 today, and this hand caught my attention when I was reviewing my hand history. I will admit my first and biggest mistake was calling the raise with such a weak hand. My thoughts were with 4 players in the post if I get quartered I just lose what ever went to rake. I make it to the river with the nut low I can win some money. The one thing that caught me off guard was the all in after the river. The question I have is how do you call or fold? A call means winning half of the pot at best or losing 75% of what I'm going to put in.



    PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://flopturnriver.com/

    Button ($1.12)
    SB ($3.53)
    BB ($2)
    Hero (UTG) ($2.91)
    MP ($1.91)
    CO ($2)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG with , , ,
    Hero calls $0.02, 2 folds, Button calls $0.02, SB raises to $0.12, BB calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10

    Flop: ($0.48) , , (4 players)
    SB checks, BB bets $0.02, Hero calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, SB calls $0.02

    Turn: ($0.56) (4 players)
    SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

    River: ($0.56) (4 players)
    SB bets $3.39 (All-In)

    Total pot: $0.56
  17. #17
    Book Den Deppen’s. «Pot Limit Omaha 8 Revealed»

    One of the best players in the history of Omaha hi / lo Dan Dalen in their work dispelled the stereotype that a good player is a bad teacher. In his book he not only reveals the basic nuances of the game, but also introduces the reader to many subtleties.
    Last edited by spbmv_80s; 05-08-2015 at 11:59 AM.
  18. #18
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    Thank you, I will look for this book over the weekend
  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiva255 View Post
    Good one
    Deleted as it adds nothing to the discussion

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