Is this a big enough pot?

Just sat down, no reads. I fired the second barrel on the turn, figuring I would be raised by either opp if slow-playing and could ditch the hand. Given that action, and the river donk and call, this is a 10BB pot. Our discussion in the other thread regarding calling one bet in a big pot such as this was HU. What do we do against two opps?

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (10 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q, Q
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls

Flop: (7 SB) 7, 7, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls

Turn: (5 BB) A (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, SB calls, UTG+2 calls

River: (8 BB) 5 (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero ?

The biggest problem with being an overcaller is that while the original bettor may be bluffing (the whole reason we call 10BB pot for one bet is because 10% of the time there will be a bluff) there is no such thing (at least that I've seen) as a bluff caller. The bettor maybe taking a fire at the pot because it's so big he's hoping to get you off your hand...the caller almost always has "something" (there is a rare species of players that will be to the left of the bettor and still call with the stone cold nuts if there are several people yet to act as a way to get overcalls, but there has to be more then one player because that 1 bet you could get off the original bettor with a raise, and you have to be fairly sure that they'll call).

So, in this hand, I don't think we worry about what bettor has, we're calling him regardless of what he has. What does the UTG+2 have that he'd limp PF, and call down with? Not having a read on either of them makes that tough because I can't think of a single hand I'd play that way...

Looking at the hand some more, I think a call is an order...You're probably up against Ax from UTG+2 who called the flop because he has an A but he doesn't like his kicker and SB's probably has either a 7, 9, A or 55...

The more I look at it, if SB is a decent player, he probably wanted to go for a CR on the flop or turn, but is out of position to do that and not drive UTG+2 out...He bet on the river because he was afraid you wouldn't...

I think you're beat by one and both and if it were me, I'd drop it and see what they have.

There may be a small percentage of the time that you're a head and are losing a big pot, but against 2 players, I don't see it with this board and this action. I say, save your bet and note the players hands. You will get to see them even if you don't call here, even if you have to go look them up in the HH....

Gr8 post!

Overcalling in this spot probably is no good, against them, in this game. HU... definitely calling, expecting not to win very often.

Bettor has the 7, caller has the A!

Great play would be for the caller to raise (unless he's calling w/ 7, but he's not)... but that's whole different conversation.

I did fold, mainly due to UTG+2's overcall, expecting SB to turn over nada.

However, SB flipped up 99 for the super-slowplayed flopped FH. That threw me for a complete loop. UTG+2 held A2.

I posted this hand specifically because this is something I'm seeing more and more at micro stakes...the super-slowplay. It's stupid on his part, of course, but extremely hard to identify and I find myself paying off far too often in pots of this size. I got away from it here but this isn't always the case. So, two questions:

- Are others seeing this trend as well?
- Having seen a specific player do this more than once, what's the optimal play?

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

I did fold, mainly due to UTG+2's overcall, expecting SB to turn over nada.

However, SB flipped up 99 for the super-slowplayed flopped FH. That threw me for a complete loop. UTG+2 held A2.

I posted this hand specifically because this is something I'm seeing more and more at micro stakes...the super-slowplay. It's stupid on his part, of course, but extremely hard to identify and I find myself paying off far too often in pots of this size. I got away from it here but this isn't always the case. So, two questions:

- Are others seeing this trend as well?
- Having seen a specific player do this more than once, what's the optimal play?

He played it terribly. Say, "thank you" for the saved chips.

If you have big hand (AA, for ex.) ... Board Q,Q,J,6,8... and he plays passively whole way until river, where he donks - you're calling every time! You can't fold for one more bet because he chooses to wait till the river to lead, even IF he's super-slowplayed in the past. He's saving you bets - call HU.

He played it terribly. Say, "thank you" for the saved chips.

right here.

and, yes, i see it quite often. but, it ALWAYS fools me.....and i dont mind. these fools need to win sometimes, or else they'd find another hobby....and we dont need that.

in the river it's hard not to go but you also have to think that this first chip guards

I suspect what happened is this. SB flops the full house, and hopes that you may have an overpair and will bet at him. So his plan is to check-call the flop and check-raise the turn, which is quite standard.

Then the ace hits the turn. This is actually a potentially bad card for SB, because if he represents that he isn't afraid of the Ace, you might fold your overpair. (There's also the slight possibility that the Ace completed your boat and that he's now drawing dead to a 9.) So he check-calls the turn and hopes that people will see his river lead-out as a bluff and call or raise it.

It's actually an interesting question what the optimal play of this particular full house is.

Originally Posted by LawDude

It's actually an interesting question what the optimal play of this particular full house is.

If I don't bet my boats they always check behind. I don't get enough boats to be sexy with the few I flop.

And if I don't bet my boat, tptk will never raise me.

SB should just donk the flop and keep betting and raising. Everyone will put him on T8 because no-one ever plays a big hand fast in 1/2. No one will fold and anyone with a 7 or an overpair will give him a lot of action.

Originally Posted by DrivingDog

SB should just donk the flop and keep betting and raising. Everyone will put him on T8 because no-one ever plays a big hand fast in 1/2. No one will fold and anyone with a 7 or an overpair will give him a lot of action.

amen. the new "slowplay" is to play a big hand fast. everyone thinks you have been watching too much tv and are trying to bully them out. and, then, oooooops. you drag the chips in a pot that is way bigger than it was supposed to be.

i would have folded also, thinking the sb hadthe 7, i see it alot in low limits, sb calling cause he hit the stray set, i would not have put him on pocket nines, i would have but one of the other ones on a ace and other flush draw, but it almost makes you sick to you stomach, but he didnt have the 7 he hit the boat surprised no reraise on the turn