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  1. #1

    Default 5cd big pair

    I know implied odds usually suck in 5cd, but when I play pot limit
    (aggressively) I think I'm offering them and I don't like it. Should I just be folding jacksup here?

    Be merciless, I'm still *very much finding my feet

    PokerStars Game #10098184121: 5 Card Draw Pot Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/05/25 - 12:25:06 (ET)
    Table 'Raimonda' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
    Seat 1: thierry21 ($23.65 in chips)
    Seat 2: EtileNedlog ($28.50 in chips)
    Seat 3: NuWere ($53.95 in chips)
    Seat 4: tripinsmoke ($17.40 in chips)
    Seat 6: KSP30 ($15.50 in chips)
    Mrinaldi will be allowed to play after the button
    Mrinaldi was removed from the table for failing to post
    KSP30: posts small blind $0.25
    thierry21: posts big blind $0.50
    *** DEALING HANDS ***
    Dealt to NuWere [Jd Jc 5c 5s Td]
    Mrinaldi joins the table at seat #5
    EtileNedlog: raises $1 to $1.50
    NuWere: raises $2.50 to $4
    tripinsmoke: folds
    KSP30: folds
    thierry21: folds
    EtileNedlog: calls $2.50
    EtileNedlog: discards 3 cards
    NuWere: discards 1 card [Td]
    Dealt to NuWere [Jd Jc 5c 5s] [4c]
    EtileNedlog: bets $5
    NuWere: calls $5
    *** SHOW DOWN ***
    EtileNedlog: shows [As Ad Ks 5h Kd] (two pair, Aces and Kings)
    NuWere: mucks hand
    EtileNedlog collected $17.85 from pot
    *** SUMMARY ***
    Total pot $18.75 | Rake $0.90
    Seat 1: thierry21 (big blind) folded before the Draw
    Seat 2: EtileNedlog showed [As Ad Ks 5h Kd] and won ($17.85) with two pair, Aces and Kings
    Seat 3: NuWere mucked [Jd Jc 5c 5s 4c]
    Seat 4: tripinsmoke (button) folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
    Seat 6: KSP30 (small blind) folded before the Draw
  2. #2
    His implied odds don't seem that big, he only got an extra $5 out of you. pot+implied odds = 2.50 : 11.75, I guess that's 5:1. Of course, you have 4 uber outs.
  3. #3
    Fnord's Avatar
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    I can see folding here, but I think you need to call here sometimes.

    What's his range on the 3 draw after a PFR? Do Jacks up ever beat an improved hand from him? How often does he donk into aggressors?

    Your range should be something like:
    2 Pair
    Trips
    4oak
    4 to a flush (with an Ace or straight draw)

    His line costs him a bluff when you're on the come, costs him money vs trips or a better hand (how much depends on if he calls a re-raise), makes him money against goodish 2 pair hands. You should probably fold your weaker 2 pair hands (Tens up and worse or so.) Once a blue moon re-raise the ass-end of your range on a bluff.

    I'm not worried about his line against our range.
  4. #4
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Actually, speaking of reverse implied odds, what's the smallest 2 pair hand you should be re-raising against a reasonably opening range from a non-steal position.
  5. #5
    We cant get away with raising this river?
  6. #6
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigspenda73
    We cant get away with raising this river?
    Why do you think we both have the best hand and get called by worse hands often enough to raise here?

    His range on donking pot after drawing 3 is like:
    1 Pair unimproved trying to get a fold
    2 Pair with a broadway (really depends on how tight he opens.)
    Trips

    If we re-raise, 1 pair folds, 2 pair might look us up, trips almost always look us up unless it's small (unlikely given his 3 draw) and we pot it.
  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Fnord
    Actually, speaking of reverse implied odds, what's the smallest 2 pair hand you should be re-raising against a reasonably opening range from a non-steal position.
    Caro (in SS) gives the median hands thus:
    at least Jacks -> median is AA
    at least Aces -> median is Tens up

    So I'm reraising anything higher than the median.
  8. #8
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeFou
    Caro (in SS) gives the median hands thus:
    at least Jacks -> median is AA
    at least Aces -> median is Tens up

    So I'm reraising anything higher than the median.
    I'll add that Caro isn't accounting for a big bet format. With a bigger jump in effective stakes post-draw, AA is going to do better heads-up than Tens Up.
  9. #9
    I don't mean Im raising the river for value.
  10. #10
    Fnord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigspenda73
    I don't mean Im raising the river for value.
    Need more information on the other guy before I'm considering much more than a call.

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