20PLO - JJ** oop on lo board

[XTR1000]

$20PLO with $17 effective
Hero is BB with K J J 3 and calls a raise from the unknown button.

Flop 8 5 2

Whats my play? Until now I have no idea what I can people expect to be cbetting on this board, let alone putting together ranges for them. I have like 30% equity vs a AsKs** type hand, but basically no redraw the times Im beat.

Easy c/f? Any merit in leading out? Please help, this game is confusing.

[fjuanl]

I'm new to this as well so take my advice with a grain of salt. This seems like a good example of why it sucks so hard to play OOP, especially with a hand that rarely makes the nuts. I think its best to just fold preflop starting out, and maybe its a fold even for the experienced guys too

Given board texture I kind of like leading more than c/c. Not too sure if c/f > lead tho

[jyms]

I know shit as well but I fold this pre unless the button is a drooler

[bigspenda73]

PF is ok

flop is a c/f

[drmcboy]

id fold pre

def give up now

[swiggidy]

I know shit as well but I fold this pre unless the button is a drooler

this, the 3 really hurts your hand

if you have no idea how he plays you can't really plan your action

I wouldn't give a cbet much credit and you could c/c, but it helps to know if he'll just give up when he misses.

You also don't know if he steals a lot, if he only raises with big pairs, etc (hence folding pre). I wouldn't worry about "defending the blinds"

[XTR1000]

Cheers guys.

So (it seems to me) that in NL-terms people do cbet a lot less both air and value-type hands. Assuming the average 20plo player (which I perceive as fairly passive and limp-happy) a semi strong opening range would be like (double)suited aces/kings, (double)suited broadways and double suited high and middle runs? And of those he won´t be cbetting all the trash vs which I could figure to have some equity.

Now assume we raise PF in the CO AAJ5 and get two fairly loose and passive caller on the button and in the SB.

Flops T94, do I cbet here?
I am 43% vs an AK97 - ish hand, 25% vs a QJT7 and 68% vs some KT67 - ish hand. I think cbetting has some merit, if people cant fold the KTXXish often, amirite?

[swiggidy]

That board is slightly more connected than I would like to see, vs 2 villains I generally expect one to call (especially since they're loose passive).

What I do like about a cbet, is you're assuming they have to have a flush draw to call. You can safely fold to a raise, and most villains won't bluff you off the river if you check behind the turn.

[drmcboy]

your hot cold equity doesn't matter as much as playability + position.

[jyms]

Don't expect folds pre or on the flop. DO not treat this like NL and try to take things down with Cbets having air. Backdoor draws would really help here. I C/F

[XTR1000]

All good points.

What bothers me the most is, that (unimproved) our AAJ5 has little SD value even vs a triple check so we can´t really put it in our value range, the lack of BD draw/redraw forbids playing it as a bluff to pick up dead money, so although our equity looks not that bad we should c/f all three streets unless people are willing to give up their non-nutflush equity?

[swiggidy]

The key here is that you have position. In my experience people DO bet their value hands, since they all checked occurrences of top 2 or NFD are lessened. When I do bet and get called here they have a hand like J8 or 87 with no flush draw, which is lol.

When you do bet and get basically anything to fold here, single 9 for example. You're picking up their equity, which is pretty huge.

[salsa4ever]

first hand i prefer fold preflop, c/f flop

second hand i would bet the flop 3/4s. i'm turning my AA unimproved into pretty much a bluff

hopefully button folds and at least you get position

[drmcboy]

The key here is that you have position.

Now assume we raise PF in the CO and get two fairly loose and passive caller on the button and in the SB.

if we were IP i'd probably bet too.