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1/2NL: NFD 150bbs deep between a strong range and an inscrutable one

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  1. #1
    surviva316's Avatar
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    Default 1/2NL: NFD 150bbs deep between a strong range and an inscrutable one

    It's been a strange table with a lot of dynamics changes, but that's probably not important because V1 is new to the table and V2 is pretty straightforward. At this point, the table is pretty weaktight.

    V1 (~$280-290) is a middle-aged white guy who's a little rough around the edges. He's a confident reg, and when he sat down, someone was like, "No 2/5 games running right now?" He likes to be the hero. A year or two ago, I remember barreling him on an A river, and he said, "That's a scary card, huh? I call" and slammed his 3rd pair on the table face-up to win the pot. We rarely run into each other at the tables for whatever reason, though I see him around often. I'd be a bit surprised if he remembers me specifically, but I'm young, I'm sitting on $700, and I'm shuffling chips, and that's about as much as he knew about me last time he made a hero call, so it probably doesn't matter really. There was another time where I was playing at a table with his wife (who is also a reg), and he came over during a tournament break and talked about how he'll be out soon because someone sucked out on him, and ~"you know how I get, I start making bad calls"~ etc.

    So, yeah, he's that kind of player. That style probably works well enough against all the young, aggressive bucks at 2/5NL, and I don't get the sense the game has beaten him down at all. He definitely has all the standard preflop leaks; he doesn't value position, he doesn't raise enough, and he puts far too much faith in his ability to outplay people postflop with a wide range from any position. I've never seen him do anything particularly aggressive postflop, but again, VERY limited history. He sat down with $300 and hasn't won a hand, so he's got a little bit less than that now.

    V2 (~$250) is a middle-aged white guy who looks more straight-edged. He's really quiet, pretty tight and very straight forward, so even when he had the biggest stack at the table for most of the time ($700+), he was very easy to forget. We've been at the same table for a couple hours at this point, and I've changed seats and restraddled a LAGtard and have been doing a good amount of PFR'ing and betting, but I'm on friendly terms with the table and have a winning image, and this guy seems far too straight-forward to really take any big stands (and he has shown no signs of adjusting to me).

    V2 lost most of his stack in a set of circumstances that might very well have been tilting to many people (hit and run by an unknown with 77 > big pair AIPF), but he seems totally unperturbed, and his game continues to be exactly the same as far as I can tell.

    Anyway, he's tighter than most preflop, and he never ever seems to make it to the turn in hands unless he's a big player in that hand.

    OTTH!

    PREFLOP:

    Folds to V1 in EP who limps, folds to me in MP who looks down at A4cc and I make it $10, folds to V2 in LP who makes it $25. Folds around, and V1 instantly calls and I count to 5 in my head and call.

    I had been alternating between $13 and $10 and mixing in some $6-7 in steal situations, though I'm not sure how much of that V2 has seen and I'm not sure how much V1 cares.

    FLOP: ($72 post-rake)

    9c 9s 8c

    V1 and I check. V2 makes it $75. V1 thinks for a good long while before calling, though he seems totally comfortable and I never really got the sense he was close to folding or raising. Hero ???

    V1 appears to have something between $150 and $200 left behind, and V2 has no more than $150 behind.


    I'm open to critiques on all 3 actions I've taken to this point. If your recommendation is to call, please provide plans on each of a:

    - Red K
    - Red 2
    - Club
    - A
    Last edited by surviva316; 10-16-2015 at 01:04 PM.
  2. #2
    I'd rather jam than call.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  3. #3
    it might be folding > jamming > calling
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  4. #4
    preflop
    I struggle with this a bit myself but your sizing for a live game and 1 limper is small. Are we juicing the pot to outplay him post flop IP? If you want to ISO maybe make it $12-$15. Since this is a guy who plays 2/5 he might realize you don't have a monster here generally with this sizing, of course players at 2/5 pick up on these things but don't do anything about it.

    When I make it $10 in this spot I'm more likely to get 6 callers than 1.

    A 4-bet bluff is kinda sexy IMO, I think you can make it $70 and TID a ton of the time unless this guy is only 3-betting KK+.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    I'd rather jam than call.
    this
  6. #6
    I dont like 4betting preflop if v2 is accurate to your description. I think he is 3betting for value rather than some sort of play in position so I'm giving him a preflop range of TT+,AQ+ (if he is infact tight and straight forward). I think v1 can have a huge range of suited connectors/broadway cards/pocket pairs.

    I dont think a 4bet gets enough folds from V2 so i'd rather call pre.

    I think with the flop we are ahead of v1. I think v1 is most likely to have a 9 but I also think he can have alot of draws that we are ahead of as well as underpairs. I think v2 has an overpair. Based on the description I dont think he cbets AQ/AK(if hes even in there with AQ). I think if he's capable of folding an overpair then jamming here is best but if you dont think that is possible then call.

    I think im check/calling 100% of turns regardless of the card. if we check and v2 jams and v1 calls we're getting 3-1 and I think thats the correct price against JJ+. If v2 jams and v1 calls we're getting 4-1 and I think that's the correct price.
  7. #7
    surviva316's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baudib View Post
    preflop
    I struggle with this a bit myself but your sizing for a live game and 1 limper is small. Are we juicing the pot to outplay him post flop IP? If you want to ISO maybe make it $12-$15. Since this is a guy who plays 2/5 he might realize you don't have a monster here generally with this sizing, of course players at 2/5 pick up on these things but don't do anything about it.
    I don't generally raise preflop to thin the field in these games, or at least not in decent position. Regardless of whether I'm planning on doing a lot of bluffing postflop or a lot of vbetting, these players' biggest weakness is that they call far too wide preflop and far be it from me to discourage that. Villains calling with 63s and J9o and crap with no rebluff plans postflop is pretty much never a bad thing for us, no matter how many people that means get to see the flop. Hands are generally 2- or 3-way by the turn anyway, which is when the poker really begins.

    I also don't care that much about "balance" in the sense that I'm afraid of looking like I have a weak hand when I, in fact, do hold a weak hand against any players whose exploitation plan is call moar. When you get a dirty image and make a smaller raise with a thin value hand (eg: 99, QJ), then you find that you win a ton of $150 pots with split pair/TPMK > 2nd pair/whiffed draw. When you do it with semi-bluff hands (eg: SCs, Axs), then you find you get a ton of folds on turn barrels and river post-oaks and selective triple barrels.

    If there were players who exploited my weak range by 3b'ing preflop, then I wouldn't be so brazen. Against players who are capable of raising their marginal hands postflop, I can't so easily get away with endless thin vbets and barrels. Obviously when I have bad position with a high RIO hand, especially like AQo in the SB, then I'll make the biggest possible raise that will get called by worse, but even then it's not so much with the hope to get it HU.

    My objective here was to get the initiative and hopefully steal some position, neither of which requires a big raise. I don't think it's so clean and simple in this case because we're ISOing someone who's capable of calling three streets with third pair, and I'm certainly open to furthering the discussion, but just wanted to give my little shpeil on how little I believe in the whole "thin the field" craze in live poker.
    Last edited by surviva316; 10-19-2015 at 09:13 AM.
  8. #8
    yeah I mean I feel the same way and I generally agree. I don't mind playing 7-way pots and after I'm at a table for an hour that's generally what happens any time I open. I win a ton of extra money in the long haul making small raises with hands like KT/QJ and flopping a pair and getting 2-3 streets of value. Like you said, winning $150 pots where other people win $40.

    with a hand like A4s I'll usually just limp if 2-3 people are already in. With 1 in and MP it's pretty close. The chances of overflushing someone is high enough that seeing flops with a lot of speculative hands is pretty appealing IMO.
    Playing big pots at small stakes.

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