1-1, BU squeeze, 1 caller

8-handed or so, EP guy who opens wide opens for 4bb, 3 casually call the raise, I'm on BU looking for squeeze opportunities and look down at .

These opponents put me on far too tight a range when I 3-bet and fold to it quite a lot, so I re-raise to 20bb.

All fold except HJ, who thinks for a little bit before calling. I am about 150BB deep with him. He is a thinking player but too loose pre. In this hand though I think most of his range consists of low-mid pocket pairs, and more likely to call the 3bet with 98s than AQ.

As the flop is dealt I look at him to see his reaction to the flop, and realize that he's looking right back at me. Awkward. Anyway, flop comes



He checks, Hero?

I would check for free card when half the deck (K, Q, J, A, 9, hearts) will give you top pair or a draw.

cbet 30BB and then shove on any hearts,K,Q,9,T.Preflop I flat call with KQs and 3 bet or fold with KQo sometimes.

I think you might be overestimating their fold-to-3b range? Could it be that they're just limping and calling single raises a whole lot and then fold a bunch to 3-bets? Cos that then doesn't mean that they'll be folding Ax broadways or any pair to your squeeze. If I would 3b there in a live 1-1 game, it would be to isolate the mega fish, but I would ususally default to overcalling to keep Kx Qx rags in.

I like both lines. My first instinct was to check back and bet J+ or heart turns, which is surely +EV, but we will get one bet bet on the flop from a lot of his range that he will fold on the turn. I could see us shovelling a blank turn as well if the signs are right.
I'm pretty stoked about this flop, and not about many others... I still prefer a call pre in pretty most live spots that I can think of.

Yeah I also thought maybe 3betting pre was possibly not optimal.

I would check for free card when half the deck (K, Q, J, A, 9, hearts) will give you top pair or a draw.

This was funnily my thinking behind cbetting here, seeing that we see plenty of cards we like to barrell on and plenty of hands that call flop which fold to a 2nd barrel. I.e. I wasn't expecting a huge part of his range to fold flop but often to a turn barrel. Anyway I bet here 22 and he raised to 48. Sure looked like a set and I think I might have folded an overpair here sometimes... I meant to bet 1/2 pot and this was smaller than that (miscount pot ftl) and was therefore probably too small a bet in retrospect, but I don't know if live players clue in to that often. He himself underbets pots all the time.

Originally Posted by eugmac

As the flop is dealt I look at him to see his reaction to the flop, and realize that he's looking right back at me. Awkward.

So give him a reaction. Sounds to me like he has a small/medium pair and isn't sure about your 3-bet range. He's looking at you to see if you hit, all you have to do is say "yes".

I don't want to cbet this flop because it sounds like so much of his range has hit this board and we are going to see a ton of good turn cards.

World's easiest c-bet.

Bonus style points when he lays down JJ/99 face up.

I feel like the staring contest is a big part of the hand. In my experience, that's what people do when they have a hand that's "just ok" and doesn't really know what to do with it. He's looking for a reason to fold, I think you should give it to him.

I dont' disagree with the check behind play, but should we at least mix in some bluffs when a third spade hits. Any thoughts anyone?

If you want to rep a spade flush you have to bet the flop.

Originally Posted by baudib

If you want to rep a spade flush you have to bet the flop.

Yeah I get that. That's the case against most players I see.

But the whole staring contest thing just keeps nagging at me. People look at other people in poker all the time, but this time it was awkward and distinctive enough that the OP made a point to mention it.

In my experience, that just says "I have a medium strength hand, have no read on you, and I'm inexperienced/clueless enough that I don't know how to play it without significantly improving. But I know enough about poker to know this is a good hand, so I'm can't fold it"

Also in my experience, that player will put your on a flush draw when he's out of position about 95 out of 100 times.

why would you want people to fold when you have KQs OTB? change your hand to J7s and you have a thread.

anyway, I'd bet and go from there. don't mind the smaller size at all, and I'm calling the raise unless it's out of character (you don't mention post flop reads).

drmcboy does make me realize hard that I didn't entirely know the precise reasons why I was raising, i.e. in the moment I didn't have a clear plan in my head. But since the initial raiser was terribad I think it's a reasonable play to try to isolate him.

Sorry about lack of postflop reads, I swear I typed that in but apparently I reworded shit and clobbered the content. In short passive-ish and straighforward, haven't seen him c/r bluffing yet, which is why I said folding an overpair here wouldn't have been overly hard. Also my image makes it likely he puts me on JJ+, AK. If it helps the guy's about mid-40s.

He did bruff me off KK on a AQTxx board with 64o later on in the evening though. :/

flat pre. Cbet flop and fire any heart or J+ on the turn.

betting the flop
epending on the villian and how dirty my image has been for the last 30 mins, betting at the very least a T+, any spade, possibly any card that is not a 9,7,6 though if we were deep i'd barrel these as well

In my limited live cash experience, fish staring at you as soon as the flop comes down is a sign of intense engagement with the situation, usually meaning they are looking to put more money into the pot, usually because they like the flop, sometimes if they're pissed at you and want to make some kind of move. I've found it's an instinctual reaction for them to stare and look like tards when they flop something. If it's a more experienced sober reg, I wouldn't take as much from that.

I'd defo flat pre. Like KQs IP plays well multiway, dominates a bunch of other hands and just owns. I doubt Any situation where we strive for preflop FE is going to be better than a flat here and so if you wanna squeeze, I'd much rather use AJo or some other shit that does better HU, vs loose calling ranges and that you aren't as happy to flat.

I'd always c-bet vs a wide range here and then fire loads of turns since villain's range will be littered with marginal medium strength shit by the turn a big amount of the time.

Originally Posted by bikes

betting the flop
epending on the villian and how dirty my image has been for the last 30 mins, betting at the very least a T+, any spade, possibly any card that is not a 9,7,6 though if we were deep i'd barrel these as well

good point. i missed that.

I agree that when a fish is staring at you after seeing the flop when you are the PFR he has a big hand.

In case there's confusion he wasn't looking at me after the flop, but rather watching me INSTEAD of watching what cards come on the flop.

he's probably read caro's book of tells

Originally Posted by rpm

he's probably read caro's book of tells

more like he saw that Full Tilt commecial where Jennifer Harmon stared at that dude instead of watching the flop, then he flinched, she looked at an A-high flop and insta-mucked KK.

Real poker is JUST like that, lol

KQs is normally in my value range.. I don't really like the idea of turning it into a bluff preflop. as played, barrel the flop and most likely the turn.

Originally Posted by rpm

he's probably read caro's book of tells

some of the stuff caro says seem to be bang on a lot I find. Esp that bit about the involuntary shaking hand when a fish is betting - he at least thinks he has the nuts. Not failsafe though, so you have to be careful as with any physical tell. anyway back on topic, I agree now that turning KQs into a bluff was less than optimal and my cbet afterwards was standard.

how did you turn KQs into a bluff? i'm confused

well what do you call it when you're up against many opps, and vs certain opp ranges you're 3betting for value (i.e. like here vs the initial raiser) and vs others you might fold out better hands like AQ? idk i'm stressed out with life atm and my mind isn't very clear so i'm also confusing myself now imo.

Originally Posted by eugmac

turning KQs into a bluff was less than optimal and my cbet afterwards was standard.

You're assuming that polarizing your range here is correct!

The reality is that KQ is a pretty darn good hand and while a raise will often get hands like QT to fold, your opponents' call/fold decisions are all over the place here so like AQ is sometimes folding, 64s is calling to hit "and win a big pot", QT is stubborn sometimes, JJ might freak out and set mine, etc.

So net result is that while you are playing against stronger hands overall, you're also limiting the number of players to the flop making top pair hands much more powerful and putting AA-QQ in your range which makes it a lot easier to take it down on the flop when the stubborn ones miss.

Short answer, your opponents suck, this is a fine pre-flop play (it's a solid adjustment to your opponents' loose pre-flop raise calls) and a ridic easy c-bet.

You're assuming that polarizing your range here is correct!

I had to go into the tank to think about this over. Here come some ramblings from my rudimentary poker brain.

Simplifying the concept of polarized ranges, it means taking a certain action which splits our range into two strength groups, commonly nuts/air. Taking the same line part of the time with air as with the nuts prevents opponents from being able to play perfectly against us. I would say that in such games as this 1-1 live game you often sit at tables where most players aren't thinking beyond level 0, in which case it's silly to think about range balancing, because they won't exploit you. But on the other hand I've also noticed that in live games, players who seem to be winning and playing noticeably different from the others (tighter, more aggro) get noticed and remembered, and barring the worst of the whales out there, even pretty bad players will take note when you're e.g. potting 3 streets only ever for value and start adjusting, i.e. folding their weak top pair hand to a second barrel.

Or maybe I'm now giving these players too much credit for being able to adjust like that - when I took down several multiway pots preflop when I 3bet for value in this session I had to think that at least some of them were adjusting to my pretty unbalanced 3betting range (basically a pure value range, as wide as I deemed appropriate). But on the other hand, I think at least some of the players were simply playing like bots preflop - the read somewhere that certain hands you can call one bet with PF, but gotta fold to a 3bet, and that's exactly what they do, and not really anything to do with my perceived range. I suppose it's most likely a combination of both factors in reality.

Anyway back to the situation at hand, assuming we're polarizing our PF 3bet range, we'd 3bet our nut/value hands and hands that aren't profitable enough to call with, but have some sort of value postflop should we get called (the C range, as per Renton theorem). I guess that's what drmcboy meant about J7s instead of KQs, the latter of which is certainly profitable to call with.

Fnord, since you're implying polarizing here would be incorrect, I can only conclude that you mean to say we should a) widen our value range to include KQs, screw balance, or b) something to do with merging ranges? Range merging isn't a concept I've really digested fully so I can't really write anything fruitful here but my feeling is that the opponents here aren't thinking on a level where any of that is relevant at all? Or maybe you mean option c) which hasn't dawned on me yet.

I could go either way preflop. In live low stakes games I think polarizing is often a mistake because you will get called a lot. You must play in some weird game.

Something I see a lot in my games is this: A guy who telegraphs his range with his preflop betsizing (i.e. raises to $15-$20 with JJ+/AK and raises to $6 with JTs, 33) opens for $6 and gets flatted by 4 people. I go after these pots with ATC. Other than that, my light 3-betting is in position vs. a LP opener with some Ax/Kx hand or trying to ISO vs. a terribad player.

Stove some ranges here, start with a guy who opens too wide and figure out what kind of crap people are flatting with. Their ranges capped at like TT/AQs; you will basically be crushing (you should be 25-30% in a 5-way pot), so 3-betting KQ here is strictly for value.

Originally Posted by eugmac

a) widen our value range to include KQs, screw balance

This. Fuck balance in just about any live game. Just do whatever it is that makes you the most money in the hand you're playing.

KQs isn't a big pre-flop value play, but it will hit a lot of flops and unless you've been re-raising a lot then you should be winning this hand a lot without showdown.

Originally Posted by Fnord

it will hit a lot of flops and unless you've been re-raising a lot then you should be winning this hand a lot without showdown.

This...and c-betting flop 100%.