Ultimate Werewolf

Originally Posted by wufwugy

i read you just dandy in the deadwolf game

if that's the game where i was wolf with bid and i won it for the wolves until bid did his pm-spew, then sure, whatever.

Originally Posted by baudib

Actually Daven, if you think you might be outing the seer why would you even make that post.

It's like the thought process in the post is villagery, but actually posting it is anti-village, if you follow me.

I'm the biggest proponent of just letting posting as you think but that's clearly a case where you probably shouldn't.

i did briefly think about this, but i was pretty careful not to give up any info in that post = i doubt it's anything other than village-neutral. Wolves are going to be seer/cursed hunting regardless, i'm just stoked that i caught myself in time. Makes for a pretty easy angel-protect right?

Originally Posted by baudib

JKDS is not a noob and has modded games, he should know there's no pattern to how the mod writes about players.

You're mistaking practice with theory. We have an inexperienced ww mod talking about players in the intro, in an order that isnt the normal player order. I thought there might be something to that, and explored it.

Originally Posted by Keybored

Alright, Keith, I can do this if you insist. I did it as W the entire last game. But it was fun fucking with ppl as a W, watching them scramble about. But as a villager battling one dude who's absolutely wrong isn't appealing. And I regret being a distraction to my team. Alas, this is how you want to spend our day, then so be it. We can waste our time on each other. But it pains me that every minute I spend with you is taking away from what I/we could be doing to hunt. So, let's let the bickering begin and we'll see if anyone gives a fuck along the way. To clarify for everyone who may still be reading: I'm not doing this to prove Keith's a wolf, I'm doing this cuz he's insisting. I have a soft feel for him as a wolf, but that's all. If anyone gets bored with this and/or agrees it's a distraction, please speak up so we may end the nonsense. Anyway, my answers are bold/cap included in the original post by Keith. I'll start here and continue in numerical order as they have been posted. But I can't do it all in one sitting, so there'll be gaps in the time between responses. During which, no doubt, Keith will launch his reattacks. But those newer posts will have to wait until I get to them. So just cuz he's pushing fresh stuff ATM in response to my pushes, it doesn't mean I'm not engaging ATM. I'm just busy wasting my time with the past. Enjoy...

yaawn.That added nothing?

Originally Posted by Keith

Are we supposed to be impressed with this? NO, I GAVE UP TRYING TO IMPRESS ANYONE A LONG TIME AGO. WOW, you had a whole day and you took some quotes about what the people voting for MMM said about him. YEP, I DID ANLYSIS ON THE DOWN TIME THEN SHARED MY FINDINGS WITH THE VILLAGE. Do you think this makes you look like a villager? IDGAF ABOUT MAKING MYSELF LOOK V. I'M HERE TO HUNT W'S. We all know he died because of his actions at the end of last game and start of this game where he implied that he was cursed. FWIW, I AND OTHERS BELIEVE THAT WAS WRONG AND NARROW FOCUSED. That just demonstrated his lack of judgement and as a result he had to die. IN YOUR HUMBLE OPINION. AS YOU SO ASTUTELY HOLLERED, GOT IT. IT'S DONE, I'M OVER IT.

The point being that the "analysis" you did proves nothing , its just a recap of the thread , it doesn't show that you are a villager wolf or anything.

Why not put your name in the list for where you acted and voted for him along with reason for getting off the wagon instead of hiding a brief mention in the text? JUST ABOUT EVERY POST I MADE ABOUT MMM GAVE MY REASONS FOR SUPPORTING MMM. RTFT. Why not analyse how the voting looked at the point that you got off his wagon? CUZ TO ME IT WAS OBV, KNOWING MMM, THAT HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH AT/BEYOND POST 64. THUS, 100+ POSTS LATER, I JUMPED OFF MMM AFTER HE'D CLEARED HIMSELF.

how did he clear himself? #113 you are still saying "That said, your beginning play still has me leaning hard wolf until I see a reason otherwise." Then he posted

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

I don't recall gabe ever playing the paranoia card before.

***

Ahem. 'super awesome' FFS
How else would you describe a solo wincon?

Frankly, this question is one of the wolfiest things ITT so far. There is simply no reasonable answer which makes any sense, and that indicates that the original statement was a clear and plain jest, and Luco pretending to take it seriously is shady.

***
wuf's read on dhubs is baffling to me. It's like wuf didn't mod last game where dhubs was doing basically exactly what he's doing now. If wuf is going to side against dhubs, it simply must be for more compelling reasons.

I don't like wuf's mechanics questions in thread, but I can see people calling me out as hypocritical on that account, since I didn't understand the gravity of this tell ever before. I talked a bit of mechanics in last game (anybody want a flow chart?), and all it got me was wolf-vibe.
I don't like wuf's shockingly low (for wuf) post count.

***
For the record, I have a physics degree. We're a notoriously eccentric and goofy lot. I generally take my Latin name, Alserious, whenever I post pedagogically, which is pretty much all of the time on FTR. However, there is no reason to take the wee hours of D1 in a WW game seriously, certainly not educationally.

So I decided to pseudo-spew in a strong way under the assumption that honest villagers would see right through me, and dishonest wolves would try to latch onto it.

Did wuf fall for the trap? YOU DECIDE!!

Who said that?

Wuf said that.

***

Daven said it, too.

where does he prove himself a villager there? He claims he is a villager setting a trap for the wolves to see who falls for it. five posts later you get off his wagon with

Originally Posted by Keybored

Surely you're joking, Mr. MoMo...I like that the old MoMo Mojo is back and (for now) I believe his tale of early joviality.

Rescind MoMo

talking about early joviality and completely avoiding talking about the trap part of his post. Did any one else try and get off his wagon at that stage , no , it was you that panicked and jumped off his wagon.EVeryone else stayed on his wagon because they couldn't be sure if he was cursed or a wolf or a villager . YOU WERE SURE. only the wolves would know that he wasn't a wolf and a wolf wouldn't want to still be on his wagon if they had been opportunistic jumping on his wagon.

All the time you spent on this could have been spent doing something constructive, like answering my #560 ,#625 post where i bolded you originally, but you refused to address the points i made. MY ANALYSIS PROCESS IS MY OWN AND I HAVE NO PROB SHARING WHAT I SEE/DO. WHETHER IT'S CONSTRUCTIVE OR NOT IS YOUR OPINION BUT IT HELPS ME. AFTER THIS, I'LL ADDRESS YOUR POSTS.

Look at your comments about why i got off MMM's wagon LAST MINUTE????? UH, YEP. YOU BAILED ON THE 2 WAGONS AT THE END OF THE DAY

lol , so I wasn't targetting a potential wolf who refused to respond to the points i made. remember last game , i died first night having targetted you , its not unreasonable for me to think that if i'm right about you again this game that i was a likely target last night. I accept that i could be an early lynch/ nom after the last few games, and i'm gonna target people hard when i find dodgy stuff.

bollocks!!! WTF IS A BOLLOCK?

bollocks - uk slang - testicles or rubbish....bollocking...a dressing down/severe reprimand

I got off MMMs wagon because i found evidence of you saying one thing and doing the opposite. You were lieing, and you have had plenty of time to think of an explanation, so how about explaining it to the village. Theres no MMM wagon to distract us now, the village can concentrate on what you have to say. I DON'T KNOW WTF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE. I ASSUME IT HAS TO DO WITH THOSE POSTS 560/625 ABOVE. I'LL GET TO THOSE AFTER THIS.

lets look at this post... I WISH A QUOTED POST WOULD COME UP IN A SUBSEQUENT POST REPLY. IS THERE A WAY TO DO THAT?

copy it and insert it in the quote with quote tags round it.

Again touting the theme that "i got my wolf buddies to hop on MMMs wagon and get it rolling". I BELIEVE I SAID THAT AFTER YOUR PREGAME DECLARATION IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR WOLF-KEITH TO NOT VOTE MMM AND WHEN MMM SPEWED WHACKY, YOU WERE IN HEAVEN. AND THEN U CONVINCED YOUR BUDS THAT THIS WAS A NO BRAINER. The early MMM votes were me (before he pulled his lone wolf shit so how am i supposed to" shit myself when he wigged out early") SEE ABOVE, wuf dhuber and you. now obviously you are gonna claim you aren't one of my supposed wolf buddies OBV, and dhuber wasn't on your list list either YUP, so how am i supposed to be getting my buddies to jump on early? I DON'T THINK I SAID "EARLY". BUT IF I DID, SUBSEQUENTLY IS MORE ACCURATE. You are making a weak argument stretch a long way trying to target me. I AGREE IT'S A STRETCH AND IT WAS ORIGINALLY MEANT TO POKE YOU BASED ON A LOOSE FEEL AND TO GET YOU TO ENGAGE MORE. BUT SINCE I DID NOT VOTE YOU, I OBV DIDN'T HAVE YOU AT THE TOP OF MY LIST. Now its backfired on you ONLY IN YOUR MIND because i am focused TUNNELING on you WITH BLINDERS ON AGAIN and showing all your contradictions up and you haven't got a clue how to answer without it showing you can only be a wolf. HERE'S MY ANSWERS. HOW WOLFY AM I SO FAR?

Again your logic is flawed,why would the wolves want to get rid of the potential cursed villager? It means that a mislynch /forced outing of seer /angel would not occur and robs them of a chance of a strategic nom later in the game.If (as it turned out) MMM was a villager and wolves managed to nom the cursed villager and wolf number increased MMM would then be a prime suspect again. It is much better for the wolves to have kept a potential cursed villager alive than to ensure he died.

Look at the end of that quote DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO HERE, the best you can come up with is that you said I was a wolf, so i bolded you.

the bit i was referring to was "the best you can come up with is that you said I was a wolf, so i bolded you". It wasn't a tit for tat bold, it was an evidence based bold.

YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT U DID, AND WASTED A VOTE. Rubbish, I bolded you because what you said were lies that didn't tally with the evidence and i have shown the discrepancies. OKAY, BUT YOU DIDN'T SELL THAT MSG AT THE TIME. You were acting with an agenda and you refuse to explain yourself. I REFUSED TO DISTRACT THE SOLID CAMPS FORMED AT THE TIME WITH ENDLESS BICKERING. GO LOOK AT PPL'S REACTION TO YOUR MEGAPOSTS, KEITH. NOBODY GAVE A FUCK AT THE TIME. THIS IS WHERE YOUR BLINDERS HURT YOU. IT'S FINE TO PINPOINT A PLAYER BUT YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE WHEN NOBODY'S LISTENING AND/OR WHEN IT'S BEING DETRIMENTAL TO THE EVENTS ATM.

The end of day was approaching and i had found someone saying one thing and doing the opposite. As there is a high chance that i get nommed early game now , i have to address the points whilst i'm still alive.You saw last game how village forgets the message that dead villagers were pushing and you hoped to sweep it under the carpet and it would be forgotten.

Originally Posted by daven

here's a light read for y'all
if monstr flips wolf then bid gains some decent wolf equity
basis: bid bolded keybored citing 'in keith we trust', but history would have bid bolding monstr citing 'in gabe we trust'
right bid?

Why would you ever make this post as a villager?

It's like you're saying look how villagery I am without considering how anti village your post is.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

funny how in the past you fucking haaaaaaaaaaated me for suggesting a vs wagon.

in this past you speak of, enlighten me, were you suggesting that you be one of the wagons? or were you nominating two other players?

Originally Posted by daven

if that's the game where i was wolf with bid and i won it for the wolves until bid did his pm-spew, then sure, whatever.

bigred won it for the wolves, as a villager

that was the game where you were super outed but kept pretending like you werent, possibly because i was the only villager of the 4 remaining who was paying any attention

Originally Posted by daven

in this past you speak of, enlighten me, were you suggesting that you be one of the wagons? or were you nominating two other players?

both

Originally Posted by rong

Why would you ever make this post as a villager?

It's like you're saying look how villagery I am without considering how anti village your post is.

i don't see it

If you spot something that might give away the seer, do you keep that info to yourself in the hope the wolves don't spot it or do you tell everyone it exists so the wolves go hunting?

I mean really, Wtf?

And surprise surprise we have baudib agreeing with you, or maybe trying to cover for your fellow wolf.

But of course I'm sure you'd never do that and would just let your fellow wolf hang, right? I'm sure that's your standard comeback there. But people forget the impact of ego in this game.

I put out a lot of content in D1 and that makes me an easy target cuz I know the more you say the more it can be twisted. But if I'd come out low profile after last game, I woulda been targeted for that 180. So I decided this game to be myself and not try to limit myself. Here's the deal, I'm an above average typist who can nearly type as fast as one speaks. So it's easy for me to over spew. That's a detriment in this game cuz ppl just want bullets. But it's who I am.

My thing about Keith d1 was to point out that if he's wolf then his MMM vote was 100% hidden by his pregame announcement of it. So I poked him and got him to react. My super spew a bit ago to him was to see if he welcomed the engagement or not. Cuz if he's a wolf, then he'd love to take a vanillager outta play today. And I was baiting others to react to a super battle that woulda been bad for the V. I invite everyone to take note of that and see who reacted and how.

Now, here's my reads in no particular order:

DHUBER is a Villager--He's playing EXACTLY like last game where he was a lock V. I know him very well and I sense zero wolf traits.

BAUDIB is a Villager--He/I started WW at FTR same game (Gold Rush) and it's obv that his game has evolved wicked good. That said, I also know him fairly well and he's playing super smart villager. That, plus he/I are def mind melding this game.

LUCO is a Villager--I've liked him all game. And when he came out and told me to "Stop Doing This" re my early postings today, I can't ever see a wolf trying to help or dissuade a wondering villager.

BIGRED is a Villager--He's doing his normal lol-catting around, staying neutral with everyone, keeping up, and posting well. Could be a low profile wolf but until he drops a hint, I'm feeling good about him.

DAVEN is a Villager--Yup, yup. All that wagoning and voting yesterday easily clears him. And his work today so far is pro V.

MMM is a Villager--I say this cuz I also know him well and was 100% in his corner after his reversion.

Ong is a Villager--I know him better that anyone and I was certain he was V all day but I also felt he was a special but didn't want to draw attn to that. I

RONG is Leaning Villager--His style hasn't changed from what I know of him. So I like that as a V. But his exchanges with Baudib have me wondering how he can be so wrong. Thing is, I think Rong inwardly dislikes Baudib for 'tainting' the sacred FTR WW with other game styles. So I'm keeping Rong neutral but with a V lean.

KEITH is Leaning Villager--WTF, you say? Yah yah, I pulled the big dog's tail and he turned around and bit back. Exactly as expected and in keeping with his norm. Does that make me a wishy-washy wolf or a clever villager; you decide on your own. But I will say this, Keith's weakness is the blinders he puts on when targeting. I'd like him to overcome that and start hunting. If he can't/won't do that, then he's a wolf.
*****
AUBREY is Neutral--TBH, I don't know her and don't have the skills to read her stuff. I'd like to see more before judging further.
*****
WUF is a Wolf--No way he acts how he is as a helpful villager. Everything he's doing is wrong.

BID is a Wolf--He had, like only a dozen posts d1. Dude's was nearly absent. But what he did do was snuggle with Monstr and hop on an easy MMM wagon.

MONSTR is Leaning Wolf--I didn't like nuking a new guy but I'm beginning to lean away from him now. I'm very interested in what he says today.

GABE is Leaning Wolf--He has def been off his normal early game and his tunneling of Monstr is awkward. I can easily see a contrived W-W plan here.

JKDS is Leaning Wolf--His absence d1 doesn't give me anything to work with and missing a vote totally sux. But he's on board today so we'll see. However, his case against me above is weaksauce (not just cuz it's against me, but cuz it's weak). He's much better than that. And his back/forth with Gabe so far today is odd to me.

Originally Posted by monstrman

I wonder how badly you can misrep that post which absolutely does not say "I have no time to devote to this game" but rather "I am far more invested in the other game atm but I will post here as much as I can" with "I will post here as much as I can" being the key phrase.

I don't think you understand exactly how much devotion goes into playing on Pog because you pretty much have to be in the thread 24/7 and I'm sorry that this game is taking a backseat but thems the breaks sometimes.

didn't mean to misrep
did mean to highlight that you'd posted something about factors affecting your ability to contribute to this game
i'd never be able to keep up with two ww games at once, i reckon you should self-lynch in the other game then focus your attention here where the action lies!

Originally Posted by rong

But people forget the impact of ego in this game.

EGO'S GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT MOTHERFUCKER

I can lunch baudib or Daven at any time today, not fussed which one.

Originally Posted by monstrman

You're gonna have to walk me through why lynching you would make us autolynch wuf tomorrow

meh, it's based on the premise that there is a wolf in [wuf/me] most of the time, and once i flip villager it becomes clear right? agree that the premise is flawed though, and there's a non-zero chance that wuf is also a villager

Lol keyboard, I like baudib, that's silly. And he isnt alone in the acronyms and new lingo thing, jkds and ong started bringing over New terminology long ago. I think missing a few games in a row means I notice it a lot more.

Originally Posted by Keybored

WUF is a Wolf--No way he acts how he is as a helpful villager. Everything he's doing is wrong.

I'm curious for your explanation. You have made side comments about thinking I'm a baddy all game, but never took it head on or described why

Originally Posted by JKDS

You dont know that it doesnt matter. Wolves are special hunting, we know that. Some players, it seems daven too, thought Ong may be cursed or a special. Daven going after ong anyway is curious. I think it means hes a villager, but I'm terrible at reading daven.

i was pretty sure ong wasn't a pro-villager special.

ok, i'm feeling fairly happy with a keybored lynch now
rescind wuf, lynch keybored

Originally Posted by wufwugy

bigred won it for the wolves, as a villager

that was the game where you were super outed but kept pretending like you werent, possibly because i was the only villager of the 4 remaining who was paying any attention

oh dear. What would have happened if the mod-ruling of bid's pm had been to ignore bid's pm? anyway, enough on that game.

Originally Posted by rong

Why would you ever make this post as a villager?

It's like you're saying look how villagery I am without considering how anti village your post is.

did you mean to quote the earlier post where i was all 'oops, nearly submitted, didn't, lucky!;

if so, i consider myself told off - by both you and baudib

Originally Posted by baudib

Actually Daven, if you think you might be outing the seer why would you even make that post.

Originally Posted by rong

I can lunch baudib or Daven at any time today, not fussed which one.

but keybored has us both as lock villagers! surely you can't be disagreeing with him

@ Daven, yeah baudib mentioned it too, but he started out giving you villager points for it.

Rong can you give a 2 sentence summary of why you think baudib is a bad guy

The one time I remember he was a wolf, he was obvious and got spotted immediately. To me he seems innocent enough

1. His reasoning for wanting to lynch Daven over mmm on day 1.

2. His above villager lean towards Daven doesn't make any sense. How can any villager read that post be Daven and not think Daven is doing the absolute opposite of what a villager should do. Instead baudib is initially giving him villager points for it before he tries to back track afterwards.

He's trying to play villager, but his posts don't seem to stem from villager thinking.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

@Keybored: I'm curious for your explanation. You have made side comments about thinking I'm a baddy all game, but never took it head on or described why

Here ya go, Wuf. I find it much more likely that your reinvented style is due to drawing wolf than to improving your V game...


I suppose this early jab at Dhuber was just kickstarting but it's terribly weak...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Yet another? Not just another? Excerpt from post 70 from last game. If you rolled wolf, you would have "yet another" of that role type. Rolling a second vanilla isn't "yet", it's just "another". lunch d to the hoo-mex

Then there was this discussion about wolves clarifying game stuff...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Hoops I think we need explanation of the powers of the miller and tough gui

Your MMM lynch made no sense and you stuck with this wrong read the entire day...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

@MMM: You're the guy who got up everybody's ass the last game for playing the way you are playing right now. Ofc you also ragequit that game, so maybe you're not consistent. Your responses so far are things I've seen smart people who are new at wolfing do. rescind d-mex lanch mmm

So you put your chips on MMM, quit the game, and went lalala spazz...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Baud and Rilla lockwolf team! Bank it, count it, pound it like Hoopy's mam

I like how telling this one becomes later on...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Villagers who pretend to be anything other than villagers are only making the wolves' job easier.

Everyone's got a real life and time zones; first part is wolf crap. Middle part is a V pretending to be anything other (see above). Last part is about not posting who V's are; how does this benefit the V and NOT help a wolf? ...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I have a different schedule than everybody else. I'm gone each weekday for a long stretch while everybody else is on. I also post less and less with each new game. I've also been creating rules for myself in an attempt to make my play better. Those rules include things like not posting about who I think are villagers and instead just posting who I think are wolves. Naturally this cuts down on a ton of text

Again, pretending to be something else...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Basically, I've been trying to "JV" my game. The JVP got the name the JVP for a reason, and one thing he consistently did was not post a whole lot and when he did post it would be about who he thinks should die

You've got time to talk about V's but don't think it's good strat but posting V reads is legit. WAT?...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Oh I have the time to talk about who I think are villagers, at least right now. I just don't think that's good WW strategy, ... Posting vil reads is a legit strategy though.

This one speaks for itself. Are those of us working here supposed to thank you for this nugget? ...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

The optimal game in the life of a villager, according to datwugy: d1: Figure out who you think should die, bold him. d2: Figure out who you think should die, bold him. d3: Figure out who you think should die, bold him. d4: Figure out who you think should die, bold him. d5: Figure out who you think should die, bold him. d6: Figure out who you think should die, bold him. d7: Yay! You've won!

Trying to defend your low profile again to start and finishing with a Yeah, But...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Some people need to increase their output, others need to decrease it. I'm one of those who does better the less he says stuff. The fact that we're even talking about this suggests that we spend a lot of time talking about things that don't improve the probability of lynching wolves. Granted, it kinda has to be like that because we don't always know what we should be focusing on

Finally adding something to the game, except it's mostly about your squatting (incorrect) vote and then a soulread for next 2 days...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Hi Mr. Cursed. Ofc you wouldn't wanna be protected since you need to get nommed to achieve full status.
Fully comfortable with this lynch choice. So at this point, I like three deaths: MMM, Daven, Aubrey. In that order

More nonsense about time zones...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

We have a history of players thinking I'm sitting back because when everybody else is on, I'm usually off. When I got on the thread yesterday, I saw people saying how they don't like how I wasn't responding to stuff, but the truth is that I simply hadn't logged in again. We have covered this in past games, but it seems to keep getting air. Maybe I shouldn't even address it anymore. I'm sure a reason why it gets air is that I always try to correct it

So let's all go home now cuz Wuf's got it all figured out...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I have a list of 3 players I want lynched. Count em: 3. How many can we lynch today? 1.

It's Wuf's way or the highway. Let's pack it up folks, our work here is done...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I'm posting like d1 is done. Because it is. Pray tell how you assume d1 isn't over? Under which circumstances will we not lynch MMM?

This is deep...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I like possibly both Gabe and Monstr as wolves. I was looking it over, and it's kinda weak, but it could be a thing

Oh, well if you say so. Wait, wtf are you saying exactly? ...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

^^^Aubrey's at least tied with wolfiest. She has done the exact same thing as a wolf. Granted I don't remember her vil games and there is a possibility that she would do some highly wolfy things as a villager anyways

But don't you have it all "figured out" Wuf with all this in depth skimming (er, analysis)...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

TBH I just skimmed over the last two pages. I feel like we're doing way too much. We already have way more than enough to kill MMM and Daven. I think we're getting far ahead of ourselves. We need to make those two deaths happen (or clear them by making strong cases for why they're bad lynches, which nobody has done) before we move on to others. So let's kill MMM today, then spend 1 hour in d2 piling on Daven, then spend d3 discussing the next step. Ofc I don't expect everybody to agree with me, but I agree with myself, so there. BTW even though I just skimmed the latest posts (I do that from time to time), I still go back over them deeply when I'm trying to find something/make a case.

Dead V talking...

Originally Posted by OngBonga

lynch wuf

Dead V talking...

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

I have enough anti-wuf sentiment from earlier this game to put him at BEST a meh by end of day.
I am interested in what he's saying, but he's tainted himself too much thus far for me to be sheeping him TODAY.

Dead V prediction half right so far...

Originally Posted by OngBonga

wuf is a wolf if mojo and daven are both villagers, that I'm 95% sure about.

Cuz everyone gives themselves up in the first 48hrs and nobody changes with the flow...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Daven could claim seer and I'm calling him a fake. Did you see his first 48 hours of play? There's no coming back from that.

Ya Ya, Wuf, we still hear you. Too bad you were dead wrong but we should def follow you on d2 also, right...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

We have to lynch MMM. Always. We're kidding ourselves if we think he doesn't have cursed equity. Maybe he isn't cursed, but he's playing fully in line with what cursed would do more than average. Punching through a d2 Daven lynch is because he can say nothing that will change his first 48 hours.

Keep packing the boxes, we can all go home soon...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Obviously I don't mean we should literally slam through a daven lynch. I mean, I think we should, but I am not the only player. People need to do what they're gonna do, and I'm gonna be here saying people need to do what I want them to do.

YGBFKM right?...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Frankly, the main reason I have for not wanting to lynch MMM or Daven is that I want to lynch MMM and Daven. You know, because I'm wuf and wuf is always wrong with this stuff

Speak for yourself bud...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I have lost almost all my faith in wagon dynamics fwiw. Way too often I've seen wolves play straight up stupid.

Last words of a swinging Vanillager. Wonder if Wuf agrees. Nevermind, see all the above...

Originally Posted by OngBonga

Well I think this means daven is a villager too. zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Baud's listening. Wonder how much superstar effort Wuf's gonna put in...

Originally Posted by baudib

Ong could be right about this. Id really like to hear from the people who voted MMM thinking he was a villager. Now that your distraction is gone, I assume you will be putting forth superstar effort.

Wuf's ready to play correctly now...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Now that that's out of the way, I hope I can actually focus on playing correctly.

Superstar effort here Wuf. Come get your IDGAF mvp trophy...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

lynch daven i have other reads. but honestly i do not think it is right to talk about anybody other than the current day's lynch. mine is daven for obvious reasons. this post is dumb and im probably wrong, but im at the "whatever idgaf" point with some things right now

Glad Wuf's got this all figured out for us still. Cuz I wuz startin' ta worry...

Originally Posted by wufwugy

^^i dont think im probably wrong about daven, but about the other wolf or two i may have found (the connections are interesting, but pointless to make at this juncture) i am wholly unconvinced daven has an ounce of vilblood this game

Can anyone blame Daven here...

Originally Posted by daven

ja lynch wuf you've seen me as both wolf and villager, you know that as wolf i never get heat until end-game, if at all. and this game you are certain i'm inhabiting the 'Zone of the Wolfiest' and a wolf.

You mean the part where Ong signed off with, "I think this means daven is a villager too."?

Originally Posted by wufwugy

BTW, to give dues to the point Ong was trying to make, I think the ultimate result points towards Daven being a wolf.

I agree there are some holes but it's usually more likely you disagree with him

Also I think davens recent "I have a good idea but not saying it" is quite villagery. The heat was coming off him with me keith jkds all on the keybored wagon. I don't think he would draw that much attention to himself with some type of wolf -ruse. More likely is just his real thoughts

I disagree. More likely he thought it would make him look villagery as it shows states he's both hunting and thinking about protecting the seer, he very villagery. But It also shows he's not actually thinking about what's best for the village, because if he was he wouldn't have posted it.

Or he could just be selfishly trying to self promote about how he thinks he's done something smart (finding the seer)

I gotcha though

Originally Posted by baudib

The more I think about it, the Ong nom is really elite. From my POV, I can stop tinfoiling on Ong-Keybored being w/w again. Last game, I sorta cringed when they interacted and I was getting a feeling they were doing the same thing this game.

Baudib...Ong and I were indeed interacting the same this game. Cuz we teammates again. Good read. And the Ong nom was super elite. Points to a wolf or two who seriously knows this gang...

All righty folks. I have decided I am not going to stick to my plans to keep everything as close to my vest as possible, so I'll be putting up some big reads. Overall this will still be much more tempered than normal

Before I do that, though, I want to point out that I think Keybored's post about me is strong indication that he's a villager. I do agree with Keith's logic on Keybored, but I also think that even though the logic is valid, because of how Keybored plays/thinks, it doesn't necessarily mean he's a wolf. Outside of the three specific players I think are wolves, he's probably the next best lynch. But I would prefer three others first

Also Aubrey is a lock villager. I put some brainwork into her characteristics and am confident she's not a wolf. The short of it is that she cares about playing wolf, so if she ever vanishes for long periods of time or if she pops in to give 30 mins of feelings then pops off, she's just a villager. Hell she even does that a special. It's just not her style to care about villaging the way she cares about wolfing.

Originally Posted by Luco

Also, I asked you twice about your 'this is NOT vanilla daven' post but never got a reply, So I went and checked. This is your 4th game:
Game 1 - V, no daven (I got nOOb lunched d2)
Game 2 - v, no daven (I got modkilled n1)
Game 3 - W, daven nommed n2 after 25 posts (I was wolf and went atw)
So you don't exactly have tons of experience with vanilla daven.
I didn't bother responding cuz there's only one obv answer: I read previous games.

Also, why did you say 'vanilla' and not 'villager' i.e. "this is NOT villager daven'? Something about that word choice sits wrong with me.
I don't have enough exp with specials to have sensitivity about the word Vanilla. Def learning that one this game tho. My first game I only lasted one day and the next two games had no specials.

.....

I'm not sure how I want to do this. I could just tell you who my pick for the team of 3 is with some brief explanation, or I could get comprehensive and quote a bunch of stuff

Just not sure how I want to go about it

I think I should just sit on it so y'alls can squirm in ur jimmies being all like "omg what if im one of his picks nooooooes i dont wanna dieeeee"

If we had an in-game vig role, I'd shoot you now, just for kicks.

lol

@daven
I empathize. I recently had a stretch of 5 straight turbos where I lived through D2 and my votes were on exactly 1 wolf and the seer all five games.

My recommendation is for seers to stop playing wolfy and for vanillagers to provide better seer cover

@rong
My thought was that a wolf doesn't give a fk about putting heat on a seer candidate so the thought is villagery. Now you could argue that a clever wolf might actually post something Kiel that to look villagery, but if he's telling the truth, it's a villagery thought.

Then it occurred to me that if he stopped himself from making the post he might as well keep it to himself. I think you had the same reaction.

Ultimately, I agree with Daven's defense. Wolves don't need to differentiate between wolf and seer and will probably already be onto those signals. It would help villagers if they stepped up their wolf game, so to speak, and be conscious of who might be a special.

Phone posting -- "Kiel" above should be "like"

I am actually playing 4 games at once, this one included

I've concluded that gabe is stuck in a tunnel on me, and his accusations against me aren't logical so I'm gonna ignore him and focus on the rest of the thread.

I actually think that daven thinking he might be outing the seer and then posting itt that he was doing it shows a slight lack of self/thread awareness that I think would be really tough for a wolf to make. So that's a read I can make without meta.

Yay monstrman.

Oh everyone already made that read...

Well I'm perceptive.

@dhuber I don't get coached. I'm good enough at this game to float on my own as a wolf (yes I realize how bad this looks posting and I don't care) so if I were on a team with anyone I wouldn't need coaching.

@keybored

When I said that the Ong nom was elite I meant for us. The wolves whiffed on what was apparently a special/Cursed hunt. Only better result would have been for them to hit the miller

Wuf why are you beating around the bush. Thread is pretty dead so you have full attention, which is why I assume you're doing this

I'm actually with Rong

I REQUEST A 1-TIME DAY VIG

4 games Mpnstr? U whore

Decided I'm not going to back it up textually. I can if people want though

Wolves are Daven/Baudib/Gabe

Are they really? Probably not. Why? Because the team makes too much sense. Even though I have pushed for Daven like he's a lockwolf, I don't think it's outside of the realm of possibility that Baud and Gabe are wolves while Daven is not

Case for Daven: His first 48 hours were extremely wolfy. Ong even said "wow Daven is a wolf". If we take the MMM/Daven wagons to mean anything (according to how Ong wanted to look at them), they suggest Daven is a wolf. Continuation of this moves me into Baud

Case for Baud: Did anybody look at the stuff he said/did about MMM and Daven? He contradicted the hell out of himself. He planted himself on Daven early (which is very smart wolfing if they're both wolves) and everything he said about the strength of either Daven or MMM being baddies depended on how close it looked like Daven was to being lynched. I am wholly unconvinced that he thinks Daven is a baddy. He has dropped so many contradictions on the issue, but he has also been smart about it. Furthermore, homey is ghosting me like crazy. I have come down with a sense that Baud is trying to play me.

Case for Gabe: Bolded Monstr right out of the gate (with just one mediocre reason), yet has kept doubling and tripling down and coming up with new reasons and saying they're his old reasons. I'm just not buying it. Monstr looks very village here, and Gabe looks like he normally does when he's wolfing. Furthermore, for no apparent reason, he has abandoned his view of Daven being very likely wolf, as well as agreeing with me in ways that I don't think are organic (the same way Baudib is)


Frankly I'm not obsessed with ww anymore. I've had enough clutch vil wins and couldn't get wolf if my life depended on it. So if I'm totally wrong on this wolf team, I don't really give a shit. At least I'm trying to play mildly okay.

rescind daven lynch baud

At this point I think Baud is the most likely wolf. He's playing in such a way that I describe classic wolf. He's "managing" way too much. He has no convictions. Besides, it's obvious nobody wants to lynch Daven

Originally Posted by baudib

@keybored

When I said that the Ong nom was elite I meant for us. The wolves whiffed on what was apparently a special/Cursed hunt. Only better result would have been for them to hit the miller

Something a wolf would say. Killing vilong is never "elite" for the village. He's a big asset when vil

What happened is you guys just whiffed on what you thought was obvious special (he really did look like a special), and your ITT comments reflect that. A villager doesn't expect the first nom to be so bad that a special dies, but a wolf who was convinced they found a special does

lol wuf

All that buildup for that?

I'm actually pretty certain that I'm one of only 2 players out of their wolf range this game.

Actually you might be right on Gabe/Daven but I'm less convinced on Daven.

How exactly am I "ghosting" you? and why would a wolf do that?

Originally Posted by baudib

Wuf why are you beating around the bush. Thread is pretty dead so you have full attention, which is why I assume you're doing this

TBH my obsession with ww has dwindled. I think modding is way more fun than playing, and I don't get much kick out of playing epic village games anymore since I've done several in the past and I know I'm not in a mindset now where I can do it again

Actually, I could do it again, I just don't want to. It's a wracking experience

Originally Posted by baudib

I'm actually pretty certain that I'm one of only 2 players out of their wolf range this game.

You have more experience than most here. You're in the best position to deliberately play "out of his range". But, um, dude you're out of your vil range even moreso. Your FTR vil range is fucking ridiculous

Actually you might be right on Gabe/Daven but I'm less convinced on Daven.

Funny how that works. All I ask is that people just go over your posts relating to Daven. They have been so weird. You basically think he's a great wolf candidate then in the next breath are meh on him. And today you have no reason to think he's not a wolf, yet here you are saying meh again

How exactly am I "ghosting" you? and why would a wolf do that?

You've been agreeing with some of my shit that I do not think you normally would.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

To Baud: Something a wolf would say. Killing vilong is never "elite" for the village. He's a big asset when vil
What happened is you guys just whiffed on what you thought was obvious special (he really did look like a special), and your ITT comments reflect that. A villager doesn't expect the first nom to be so bad that a special dies, but a wolf who was convinced they found a special does

Damn...this be good. When Baud posted that Elite clarification, I was like Say Wha? But I couldn't reach the itch. Wuf scratched it just right here. I still like Wuf as a Wolf so I don't know why he says this unless it's an just obv stmt.

Baudib: "lol wuf. All that buildup for that?"

Originally Posted by wufwugy

TBH my obsession with ww has dwindled. I think modding is way more fun than playing, and I don't get much kick out of playing epic village games anymore since I've done several in the past and I know I'm not in a mindset now where I can do it again. Actually, I could do it again, I just don't want to. It's a wracking experience

Wait! Really? Like for realz Wuf? This was your drumroll moment to explain the meaning of life?? Sigh...

LYNCH WUF

I hope to god you got seer'd

Wuf, any time a vanillager gets nommed in lieu of the seer, it is a win for the village. Ong himself would tell you that getting nommed n1 is about as much value as he could provide for the village.

He was the first person to I ever saw say this, it was in the game I subbed in for Eric. I'll find you the quote if you'd like.

Also, games on POG are based almost entirely on the fact that vanillagers must pretend to be the seer. Hence "LOLWolves" when a vanillager gets killed.

I actually don't believe I have to explain this part to you. I also appreciated the Ong nom because it stopped me from tinfoiling on an Ong-Key pairing again. Most of the wolf points I gave Key were based solely on that possibility.

Re: Daven, my stance/progression on Daven had been excruciatingly clear. And the Ong nom also weighs heavily in an adjustment on that thinking.

If you have questions about it, feel free to ask; I invite everyone to read all of my posts on Daven.

I think Daven still has > rand wolf equity but he's quite a bit down from lock wolf territory IMO.

I'm handing underground again in ~10 mins, if you have any Qs ask quickly, otherwise I'll be back on tonight.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I hope to god you got seer'd

What the hell does that mean?

I could use a peek on BId or Aubrey myself.

Yah...half the gang be ofo this wknd it seems. Feels like we're trying to wipe our ass with the left hand so far...

Originally Posted by baudib

Re: Daven, my stance/progression on Daven had been excruciatingly clear. And the Ong nom also weighs heavily in an adjustment on that thinking.

Yes plz reread all his posts

Originally Posted by Keybored

What the hell does that mean?

After last game, the only seer who doesnt' look you up n1 is a seer who doesnt' know what he's doing

Originally Posted by baudib

Also, games on POG are based almost entirely on the fact that vanillagers must pretend to be the seer. Hence "LOLWolves" when a vanillager gets killed.

I wonder if POG players realize that this dynamic means that villagers are pawns and don't matter except in their sacrifice for their betters

Since we're doing this, I guess I'll put declarations out on all

D to the H Mux: Vilface. Read his posts

BUD: He cares little in the beginning therefore he has a role that does not interest him. If he's a wolf and he wins then we can just do what we always do and not acknowledge it.

Lucu: Good player. His logic is wuffy without any of the wacky. I have no opinion except that he's a reasonable motherfucker and if we are to ever catch him wolfing it will be because we say "hey look at that unreasonable motherfucker"

Ung: Dead

Wuf: Undead

Bugrud: Who? Nobody has an iota of a hint of a clue of what his wolf game looks like.

Buudub: Dude is managing way to hard. Wolves manage because they have to be open to all options

JuKuDS: Too inactive to be a wolf. If he's a wolf we're gonna be like "wait JKDS was playing?"

Kuuth: Keith is Keith and nobody gets Keith. His logic is on point so far, and even though he has shown chinks in his wolf armor, they have yet to be exploited

Duvun: Hey dude if you're a villager you should maybe act like a villager

Uubruy: Village. Probably the seer. She don't care

Kuyburud: Have him leaning vil but not against his lynch, as weird as that sounds

MMM: Villager who thought the first six letters in his PM were c, u, r, s, e, and d

Gubu: Classic wolf

Munstrmun: Playing like a guy who got villager on a forum he doesn't play at

Rung: Villager. Ong even said so

WUF...what sux is that I'll never get back the 2 minutes of my life that I spent reading this garbage. Plz go back to your secluded self and spare us the melodrama.

Sounds like I hit a soft spot

Wuf:
My first impression on reading that list is that I actually don't hate it.

Then when I read it again I realized you're not even saying anything.

Then I look at it a third time and I think it reads like you carefully edited it down to not say anything and then ran it through a Google-to-Wuf translator to give it correct tone.

Wuf, if you randed wolf how would it different from your villager game, in your opinion? Given that no one has any idea what your wolf game looks like.

Real talk comments to anyone else:
1. Given seemingly random order, if you told me Wuf was a wolf and I couldn't read any other posts he made, this list probably indicates that JKDS is his wolfbro (middle of list, slight villa lean based on ... non-activity?).
2. The thing that is alarming from his "reads" is the fact that Wuf is giving a free pass to the low-post count people. From what I can recall from past village games, Wuf has always been among the proponents of "let's lynch or at least put pressure on the inactives."

and Wuf you honestly don't have any real feel for my meta in either role. We were V-V in 2 games, one in which I was admittedly godawful and tunneled you and you were convinced I was a wolf and thought I actually admitted it. I was alive for 2 game days. The other I got modkilled 1/3 of the way into D1.

And the comment that I'm playing out of my range is, well, weird. It tells me that you don't even understand the concept of range. Anyway, I used to think I needed to balance but the truth is I've given up on it. I have what I think is a pretty large wolf range, there are probably a billion things that I could legitimately do in either role (i'm spazzy as both) but I'll tell you there are a number of things I've done this game that I don't do as a wolf and are hugely -EV for any wolf to do:

1. As a wolf I'm not trying to get villager Ong to go hard in the paint. Because if I'm a wolf, what did getting Ong's head into the game earn me? I didn't get my preferred D1 lynch (Daven).
2. I don't consider the implications of the nom and that it points to Ong possibly being correct. Of course as a wolf I know why Ong was killed and wouldn't openly speculate about it, and try to just ignore the topic.
3. If I'm a wolf knowing that MMM is headed for a no-contest lynch I'd just let it go and probably hop on pretty early, when he only had 2-3 votes. I don't spend most of D1 trying to point out why I think MMM could be a villager, and I especially don't try to change the minds of people I think are villagers.
4. I really don't have evolving reads as a wolf. I have a couple of voting patterns as a wolf, and I can give you examples if you'd like, and if that helps you catch me in a future game then good for you.

You should take this as a compliment: what you say you do/would do as a wolf is bad wolfing. I'm assuming you have some skill

Originally Posted by baudib

1. Given seemingly random order, if you told me Wuf was a wolf and I couldn't read any other posts he made, this list probably indicates that JKDS is his wolfbro (middle of list, slight villa lean based on ... non-activity?).

If you're a villager, then this is the kind of thing we have a fundamental disagreement on. You're looking at something that is super irrelevant and gives virtually no information about role, while I'm looking at some deeper themes at the core of play

I straight up do not believe you on Daven. I have watched everything you've said about him and done about him, and none of it makes sense if you actually believed it. Your position on Daven looks like the purest hedge there ever was. It looks like you just want people to think you think he's a wolf, but you hope he doesn't die

Here's a thing I tell people when I'm getting heat as a villager: Often on POG people say, "OMG baudib is frozen." that's because the thread moves at rapid-fire pace and it works more or less like a chat room than a forum thread. So when someone is frozen it means, "they're struggling to find anything to say."

I've said this countless times and I will send you links in games where I was a villager: I literally never struggle to post as a wolf. My post counts are higher as a wolf! Because it is easy for me to randomly say any b.s. as a wolf, and being constantly active takes heat off you.

I know this sounds stupid because I'm the leading poster by a mile here, but my post rate as a wolf is probably around 10/hour.

As a villager I take more time to think about things and figure them out.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

If you're a villager, then this is the kind of thing we have a fundamental disagreement on. You're looking at something that is super irrelevant and gives virtually no information about role, while I'm looking at some deeper themes at the core of play

I straight up do not believe you on Daven. I have watched everything you've said about him and done about him, and none of it makes sense if you actually believed it. Your position on Daven looks like the purest hedge there ever was. It looks like you just want people to think you think he's a wolf, but you hope he doesn't die

It is not irrelevant. In fact it is almost a word-for-word statement that one of my favorite wolfhunters made in a recent game, and he was dead on about the guy being a wolf and his wolf-bro.

in b4 wolves in this game start making up lists with their partners at the top and bottom, btw.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

If you're a villager, then this is the kind of thing we have a fundamental disagreement on. You're looking at something that is super irrelevant and gives virtually no information about role, while I'm looking at some deeper themes at the core of play

I straight up do not believe you on Daven. I have watched everything you've said about him and done about him, and none of it makes sense if you actually believed it. Your position on Daven looks like the purest hedge there ever was. It looks like you just want people to think you think he's a wolf, but you hope he doesn't die

Jesus F. Christ. Can you be more specific about what you don't believe? I thought the dude was insanely wolfy on D1, I was the first one to point it out, and I was basically lolcatting with half the shit he said. Specifically the post about Ong, which I addressed. I mean I am shocked that Wolf Daven would out himself on D1 like that, but maybe he didn't expect to get caught.

In any event, he sounds quite a bit better today and I noted in real time when I could that he was making better posts.

Do you not think that there is now slowly accumulating evidence that Daven could be a villager?

Originally Posted by baudib

It is not irrelevant. In fact it is almost a word-for-word statement that one of my favorite wolfhunters made in a recent game, and he was dead on about the guy being a wolf and his wolf-bro.

in b4 wolves in this game start making up lists with their partners at the top and bottom, btw.

Actually that is accurate. I assumed you meant something else. But yes if you know somebody is a wolf, any list he makes is likely to have a lower percentage than average of fellow wolves on the edges. Unless he knows about that tendency

Wuf, I am happy to have a discussion about theoretical WW play off-thread, after-the-game. I don't want to have it here.

I will tell you that I've actually been arguing with Monstr about how our villages have been burned by poorly executed seer cover.

Originally Posted by baudib

Jesus F. Christ. Can you be more specific about what you don't believe? I thought the dude was insanely wolfy on D1, I was the first one to point it out, and I was basically lolcatting with half the shit he said. Specifically the post about Ong, which I addressed. I mean I am shocked that Wolf Daven would out himself on D1 like that, but maybe he didn't expect to get caught.

In any event, he sounds quite a bit better today and I noted in real time when I could that he was making better posts.

Do you not think that there is now slowly accumulating evidence that Daven could be a villager?

You just contradicted yourself in this post alone

You acknowledged that Daven "outed himself on d1" and then said he's starting to sound better. Um? The latter is irrelevant if the former is believed. You don't actually believe what you say you did. Otherwise you would want him dead and be working towards it

You agreed with me so much about how good of a lynch Daven is. Weirdly, you were totally cool with me wanting to wait until d2, yet then d2 comes and you're mums the word.

I don't really care how you say you play on other forums, because in my experience, players who "manage" the play and contradict their own reads like you're doing are usually wolves

I've seen no logic from you for why you have shifted your opinions. I have only seen opportunism. In fact, I haven't even seen you shift your opinions, just your weird inability to act on your opinions

Wuf, I've said it like 3 times this game, but my way of finding villagers and wolves is to average in the new information with the old.

On D1 I had Daven at approximately 95% wolf, given what's happened today I've got him at around 65%. That is not contradiction. That's processing new information.

I'd actually still prefer lynching Daven over Keybored, by quite a bit.

Sticking with my stone-cold lock wolf read from D1 is what led me astray the game I was utterly convinced you were a wolf.

There's been a lot of evidence and if you're ignoring it, that just tells me that you're being inflexible with your reads or being stupid.