No theme werewolf gameplay thread

[wufwugy]

I'll restate this, because it came back up.

The revive basically draws the dead thread info back into game, which is like an OP seer.
Without a standard seer, vig, or angel, though... something is needed for balance.
If there is no revive, then the village can be really up against it.
Due to the increased number of wolves.

The revive restored balance in a game with 4 wolves, and it became OP in a game with 2 wolves. If we started at 7v2, like it was on Day 3, I never would have added a revive to the game in the first place, especially since the ghost angels were far more powerful in the smaller game. I designed this specifically for the revive to be active only when there were 4 or perhaps 3 wolves left. With just 2 wolves, 4 ghost angels are more than enough power for the village. Honestly, I think the village was favored to win then, and Keybored has to be given the credit for getting the things back on track for the wolves. Ong probably never would have stepped up his game if Keybored wasn't fighting tooth and nail. Virtually any other wolf team and the village wins this one.

I think that if specials or their products (like looked up players) exist in the endgame, the game was designed poorly. It should always be assumed that the death of the last wolf or even last two wolves should come from the lynch. This is in line with idea of each team needing 50% equity to win for the game to be fair.

This endgame may have appeared to favor the wolves greatly to you, but it didn't. It was pretty standard, and the wolves lose that endgame a ton. Specials should be designed to get the first wolf or maybe the first two and then be voided by the time the game is deep

[OngBonga]

But on the other hand baudib when there's no seer/vig then wolves have nothing to fear at night. I wasn't all that bothered about being blocked, I was more concerned about the revive. The fact we were blocked was more than balanced out by the fact we cannot be shot or seered, only lynched. And when you have as wolf a stubborn fuck like me who is very difficult to lynch, village have a problem.

I think maybe having a dead thread vig could be an interesting twist if we wanna try this kind of game again.

[baudib]

a ton of the time the value of specials is giving the village confirmed villagers

i.e. vig survives to F7, village can construct better wolf teams knowing that

or

Seer outs with 2 living lookups, thus eliminating a ton of wolf team combos + forcing the wolves to nom the seer and lookups immediately.

On POG (2+2) the 9-man turbos feature 6 vanillagers, 1 seer, 2 wolves. day lasts 20 mins, night is 10 mins. Village wins 56% over a large sample. i'm definitely sure that a 9-man game with longer days will result in more village wins, the games are chaotic as fuck but you get used to it after a while

the 13-man vanillas, the village wins 52%

[baudib]

But on the other hand baudib when there's no seer/vig then wolves have nothing to fear at night. I wasn't all that bothered about being blocked, I was more concerned about the revive. The fact we were blocked was more than balanced out by the fact we cannot be shot or seered, only lynched. And when you have as wolf a stubborn fuck like me who is very difficult to lynch, village have a problem.

I think maybe having a dead thread vig could be an interesting twist if we wanna try this kind of game again.

I think there was one game Rilla ran where there was no seer but the dead villagers could communicate with a medium? that'd be cool.

[baudib]

also what do you think the vig's shooting% is in our games...it's probably close to 0 EV on shots...having a confirmed villager is probably more important in most games.

[wufwugy]

Pretty sure anytime I mod again I'll include the dead thread in some roles

Also will possibly do 24 hour days and talking nights. I disagree that the nights are pro-village. I agree that Rilla and Ong think they are pro-village and felt like they couldn't participate, but on the flip side the nights played big roles in Key getting everybody on his side and other villagers changing their correct reads into wrong ones. I don't think that more talk = better play. Too much talk and analysis can be just as bad as too liittle

Regardless, talkless nights tend to see the days get even less action than normal. Players tend to show up to a locked thread then just forget to show up when it reopens. I thought it was kinda funny that the village got most of their play done during the night phase, then when the day came (and there was no nom), they were reluctant to bold. I think we could avoid this problem by keeping talking nights and making the days shorter

Besides, if you don't like talking nights as a wolf because you don't wanna talk, then take a note from Hoopy's book. He don't talk much and never gets lynched. It's totally okay to not always be active, and I think it helps reads anyways. Keep in mind that when the night phase is locked, it gives the villagers the opportunity to quiet down and reset. Hell, talking nights might actually be pro-wolf as far as I'm concerned

[MadMojoMonkey]

I was on ong going into most nights, but he talked me off him by day.

[Keybored]

Pretty sure anytime I mod again I'll include the dead thread in some roles

Also will possibly do 24 hour days and talking nights. I disagree that the nights are pro-village. I agree that Rilla and Ong think they are pro-village and felt like they couldn't participate, but on the flip side the nights played big roles in Key getting everybody on his side and other villagers changing their correct reads into wrong ones. I don't think that more talk = better play. Too much talk and analysis can be just as bad as too liittle

Regardless, talkless nights tend to see the days get even less action than normal. Players tend to show up to a locked thread then just forget to show up when it reopens. I thought it was kinda funny that the village got most of their play done during the night phase, then when the day came (and there was no nom), they were reluctant to bold. I think we could avoid this problem by keeping talking nights and making the days shorter

Besides, if you don't like talking nights as a wolf because you don't wanna talk, then take a note from Hoopy's book. He don't talk much and never gets lynched. It's totally okay to not always be active, and I think it helps reads anyways. Keep in mind that when the night phase is locked, it gives the villagers the opportunity to quiet down and reset. Hell, talking nights might actually be pro-wolf as far as I'm concerned

100% agree with this, Wuf. When I saw what the dynamic of night chat was, I knew there was value in shooting the shit at night as a wolf cuz nobody's guard is totally up. Inherently, night time gives off a neutral aura and chat is kid-friendly. I knew that the village lean was toward having value in night chat so I tried to setup myself as an innocent guy just trying to keep it friendly. And then I jumped all over nighttime action. Bringing up the question initially was a risk that I thought was worthwhile in the end. FWIW, I still think that giving the wolves any shred of new info during night, whilst NK decisions are being made, is neg vil.

[OngBonga]

I was playing a level ahead knowing my death would be integral to a wolf victory. The wolves didn't start pulling it out until I died. Think about it.

You're right. rilla for mvp.

[Keybored]

TBH, the Revive was never a factor in our wolfing but that's probly cuz we didn't get blocked for so long. And once we hit a block that late in the game, we were set on simply not voting to avoid risking a second block. We were getting so many of the lynches we wanted that a NK wasn't worth the risk of getting the Revive activated. Also, since the Revive wasn't going to happen until after the following day, it really didn't matter in our scenario. So I decided to take a stab at the early end with the NK and risk seeing the block/Revive. It was a gamble but I think worth the try. If we'd have picked the right NK, it woulda been an interstellar epic win for wolves. Anyway, we HAD to win that last day (no way we go to the end with 1 W), so the Revive wasn't on the table at that point. I actually wish the blocks had occurred a bit earlier so that we could have taken that new car out for a real spin. It woulda been fun for us and interesting to see how/who the dead nominated and then watched as the Revive tried to come in and rule the village. I wish it had played out. We should def try this format out again...

[Keybored]

The fuck? It's barely gone midnight here. You're in Florida, you go to bed at 8pm?

Hell yeah...up with the sun, lunch at 10, dinner at 430, sunset, drinks, Tele, snooze. They don't call this Heaven's Waiting Room for nuthin, sonny. Retirement be good, kid. You should try it sometime.

[baudib]

jesus i would have bet tons that Keybored was like 20 years old.

[OngBonga]

I retired when I turned 30.

[Keybored]

jesus i would have bet tons that Keybored was like 20 years old.

My wife's 28...cred 4 dat?

[baudib]

sick life kid

[BankItDrew]

My wife's 28...cred 4 dat?

Depends on how old you are.

[BankItDrew]

I bet my gf is better looking than anyone here tho. Maybe bias. Pics or didn't happen? You post first.

[baudib]

sick not-veiled "i have a girlfriend" brag

[baudib]

Wuf, you should consider a game with poisoners...i talked about it in the thread.

It's interesting because typically both sides will poison a wolfy player. it generates a lot of discussion and there are lots of levels.

the weird thing is the game I played, we killed the village poisoner n1 so we poisoned the most-consensus lock clear villager as anti-spew until we were confident we had found the poisoner.

[dhubermex]

I bet my gf is better looking than anyone here tho. Maybe bias. Pics or didn't happen? You post first.

I bet she is. When I was younger I hung out with friends and enjoyed going out and having a good time. Nowadays at 40 I can get along with anyone who isn't bitter/negative all the time. I never thought I'd be dating women 10-15 years younger than me but I enjoy the company of women who are generally pleasant to be around.

In my experience that's been women who are 25-35 years old. Going out on dates and listening to gals rant about their ex-husbands, ex-boyfriends and father's of their kids isn't my cup of tea.

Present Day





Friends from College (1990s)













Wuf, if you want these out of this thread let me know & I'll move them... just wanted to reply to BID.

[baudib]

geee Huber looks cooler than I imagined.

your younger pictures, you look like a dead ringer for Scourrge with a mustache.

[baudib]

Me and the gf in AC...I look like I'm drunk... I almost never drink. Then us in Vegas with celebrity poker babes.

photo (5).jpgphoto (3).jpg

[dhubermex]

She's pretty. Congratulations, you two make a nice couple.

[Luco]

im back! fuck the m25, londons biggest car park

gg wolfies, i will read the den tonight. Wuf, solid job modding as always sir

[daven]

wp wolves
gg
cheers wuf

The revive restored balance in a game with 4 wolves, and it became OP in a game with 2 wolves. If we started at 7v2, like it was on Day 3, I never would have added a revive to the game in the first place,

lol = penalising village for lynching two wolves first two days _

[daven]

I bet my gf is better looking than anyone here tho. Maybe bias. Pics or didn't happen? You post first.

pretty sure i'm hotter than your girlfriend.

[daven]

geez dube, nice 'tache.

[daven]

pretty sure i'm hotter than your girlfriend.

hairier anyway
http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...18#post2086018

[Hoopy]

@dhuber, that stache is pretty incredible as well.

How do people feel about the next game, wait a while or start soon? I've got an interesting setup that I could mod.

[OngBonga]

I'm taking a ww break of at least a month. Next one for xmas imo.

[dhubermex]

@dhuber, that stache is pretty incredible as well.

How do people feel about the next game, wait a while or start soon? I've got an interesting setup that I could mod.

I'm good to go whenever. More forum activity makes me a happy forum manager.

Funny old-school story about the 'stache... back when I was in college there was this one dude (Rob) who'd fuck with his nonstop in the showers. He'd stand in front of the mirror, wax it & all, while the rest of the basketball team stood in line to wash off. It was annoying as hell.

One weekend, we drove 4 hours to the Mexico border (Texas) for our first taste of Nuevo Laredo's red-light district. As soon as the bar manager (bar's name was "Papagayo" I think) saw a group of horny teenage gringos walk into the door, he ordered a special "show" for us. We were all drinking Corona's while scantily-clad senoritas were shoving t&a in our faces while wielding blade-less machetes that were lit with fire on both ends.

In the middle of all this, our buddy with the handlebar 'stache got a little too close, and POOF... singed that f***ing mustache right off his face. All we saw were little hairs floating towards the ground and our buddy with 1/4 of his artwork left. We laughed so hard we threw up in our mouths a little bit but he got the last laugh... a free hummer courtesy of Papagayo.

I don't know if anyone here on the boards ever went to the Mexico border strip clubs back in the day, but they were raunchy as hell. That trip we got freaked out by the "Donkey Show" (yes, they used a real live donkey and some coked-out whore). We GTFO but not before seeing being treated to a Ping-Pong show.

[Keybored]

In the Philippines, before Pinatubo blew and all the GI's left, we got to see The Change Machine and Banana Cutter; to name a few. Ah, the good ol' days. Dave...you wild man!!

[baudib]

auto enroll me in any games that run, i bet Hoopy would be a great mod.

[Hoopy]

auto enroll me in any games that run, i bet Hoopy would be a great mod.

Trying to buddy up to me already baudib? Very wolfy!

[baudib]

i don't need buddies in a game where i'm going to die D1

[OngBonga]

*plays violin*

[Luco]

dead thread was a fun read, you guys were convinced you were fucked for a while there lol

Ong - pretty sure im worse than random when it comes to reading you but it wont stop me being sure as shit with my reads, its just more fun that way. Everyone else just needs to do the opposite of whatever I say about you, thats all

[Luco]

actually i will make a slight adjustment to my game thanks to keybored - no more TWTBAW logic

[Luco]

i don't need buddies in a game where i'm going to die D1

baudib with the appeal to emotion

[a500lbgorilla]

Why you need specials to inject info into the thread:

You can read people as wolfy and have a complete inability to articulate why. You can also re-read the same people and read them as villagery with the same inability to articulate why. Everything in the thread becomes a game of could-be-this and could-be-that which is endlessly disorientating. The examples of this effect are everywhere in this game and the dead thread.

Why you should wait between games and not fire up another sign up immediately (re:Bankitdrew):

Losing drains people of the spirit to get back into it. When the wolves lose, no one notices. When the village loses, it's obvious. It's a bit cruel to ask a losing wolf team to hop into another game so quickly after a loss.

Why the wolves won:

Ong and Key have tremendous stamina for wolfing. I hope to find some too.

gg again. I had fun railing this game after death.

[OngBonga]

Yeah I thought we were proper fucked, the gabe lynch was huge simply in avoiding total wipeout. Once we got jkds though I think optimism started to creep in. Yeah I looked wolfy but who was left to make a compelling enough case to get me lynched? And I was pleased to see reading the dead thread that people were still unsure about me. Successfully killing you (luco) and then getting blocked had me convinced the dead thread were placing angels on the assumption that wolves were me and keyb. We took you out on that basis... we figure the dead thread think an ong-keyb team would never kill you, so we expected you to be a high value exposed player. I must thank gabe for helping us get that one through.

[a500lbgorilla]

Also, if we do another no specials game, I'd like to be a villager and I'd still bet against the village.

[OngBonga]

Ong and Key have tremendous stamina for wolfing. I hope to find some too.

Agree. But I kid you not, I want to be a villager next game. I understand why you don't relish being a wolf. I'll state the obvious and be honest with you, I'm unimpressed with your lack of effort, but at the same time it's just a game and I'm not gonna hold a grudge over it. I simply used it to my advantage. It felt lame that I had to practically beg the village for the cred I deserved for throwing you under the bus, but I want to win so I had to.

[a500lbgorilla]

The only part I minded about getting railroaded by you was that I thought it was too obvious you already knew I was a wolf.

[OngBonga]

You were right when you said I was overdoing it, we were lucky noone picked up on that really.

[baudib]

ur mom got lucky

[Luco]

I think wolves tend to overestimate the village in general.

Well deserved wolf win I think. Tons of effort and a little bit of luck got you there, and even the MMM self lynch was partly caused by wolf strat (I saw a den post where ong realised he was getting to him and decided to leverage it) so yeah, nicely done

I'm down for more ww whenever, be that in 1 week or 1 month

[wufwugy]

pretty sure i'm hotter than your girlfriend.

Rewarding village by not taking away the revive completely as well as a ghost angel. I designed the game assuming the first ghost angel would be 4 targets in a field of 12, not 4 in a field of 8. Killing wolves without any ghost angel use made the ghost angels much more powerful. I hadn't realized it would from the start, but that's probably because I never thought in a million years the first lynched in a 9v4 game of all active regs would be a wolf.

After the two wolves died in the beginning, it became almost completely locked in stone that the village would get at least three successful blocks. Since that was almost exactly the balance I planned for the game, I went with it. Whether or not that's balanced enough is up for debate, though

[wufwugy]

I wanted a balanced game, but I also really wanted a new and exciting game where people were more engaged than normal. If this structure was imba, then damn, but it certainly succeeded at making a game that went deep, kept things interesting for more players, and rewarded good play

Look at it this way: the village lost to a wolf more gung ho at winning than Gator ever was (Keybored) and a wolf who was bringing a bunch of strategic elements that we don't see much on FTR (Ong). And I think that loss was only barely and not set in stone. Ong could have been the lynch and it would have been really hard for Keybored to survive the next two lynches, especially since by then the revive would have picked him for the last wolf most of the time


This is the sort of thing I want in my WW games. None of that it's over by Day 3 and half the players checked out bullshit

[BankItDrew]

Lmao baudib. You're azn? I didn't know azn's liked the NFL. So funny because I always imagined you were a big white guy. And lol at your thoughts on keybored. I thought he was early 20's too.

Dhub, keep the beard.

[baudib]

dude Azns are people too

I was at Borgata in September and this 50-year-old dude from Oklahoma found me endlessly fascinating. He's like, "wow you don't sound Asian!"

"um, wat"

"you don't have an Asian accent!"

"I don't live in Asia?!"

[baudib]

the truth is I <3 Russian chicks

[MadMojoMonkey]

The only part I minded about getting railroaded by you was that I thought it was too obvious you already knew I was a wolf.

I really thought that you may start a bit slower in the posts as a bit of meta, but the way you responded to ong seemed like you were avoiding giving any reads at all and you were quite cool with that.

I don't think villarilla flagrantly fails to drop some tidbit of a read or some original thought which is compelling. Maybe you don't do it right away, in response to early-ong everything-hunting, but you would by the end of day 2.

I hold to the comment I made about, "It wouldn't have taken much from rilla to get me off his wagon."

[Luco]

rilla is like me, his heart is in the villager camp

[baudib]

i find villaging frustrating because villagers are so retarded.

[Luco]

I find it fun because villagers are so retarded. Maybe it's someone else's turn to be the retard next time

Dhuber - in hindsight Im glad you stuck to your guns when I tried to talk you off ong and keybored

[wufwugy]

If villagers are retarded, the wolves would win almost every time. I've been called a retarded villager many times, yet I have a pretty great record beating wolves. I think people like calling villagers retarded because when you already know the roles it makes everybody look dumb and even when you don't know the roles, it's easy to see any poor logic in other peoples' arguments.

[OngBonga]

Anyone can be a retarded villager. Gabe is one of our best soulreaders, yet this game he neglected to finish me off and paid for it by getting lynched himself, then went to the dead thread and talked the others out of protecting who we attacked. I'm sure gabe feels retarded this game. Is he retarded? lolnope. He's just a villager who made the wrong calls on this occasion.

I love bieng wolf but it's so much more demanding than being a villager.

[baudib]

I had a game where I was a wolf and top poster (700 posts in a 4-day period) and then the next game, when I got wolf again I wanted to punch something. plus this game. i'm a bit wolfed out.

[gabe]

we all seem retarded. thats why werewolf is so fun. i wouldnt be suprised if i had more werewolf posts than poker ones at this point

[gabe]

for like 20 seconds the other day i considered making a spreadsheet of all werewolf games ever and include everyones W/L record and personal survival stats.

if someone can type up step by step instructions on how to make this sheet for a non-native english speaker, ill get someone in india to do the leg work. we could also brainstorm stats we could have them determine. doing this might be a fun break in between games since it seems weve been playing alot lately

so stats include
wolf % (and what average % would be for people in that set of games)
w/l record
avg % of nights survived
wolf w/l record and village w/l record


a spreadsheet might not be as useful as a database but that isnt as cheap as a southeast asian excel worker

[gabe]

ive been using internet assistants to do stuff for me and im addicted to it


one hard part for them is discovering who won each game. its not usually posted somewhere, it takes digging

[baudib]

it's a good idea, there are databases around for other sites' games.

[baudib]

I was technically a villager in the anon game but I was really a mod. I was a wolf this game. I subbed into my first game late and lost. Technically I could be 2-2 but I'm going to stick with the fact that I'm objectively the worst WW player in FTR history.

[baudib]

for like 20 seconds the other day i considered making a spreadsheet of all werewolf games ever and include everyones W/L record and personal survival stats.

if someone can type up step by step instructions on how to make this sheet for a non-native english speaker, ill get someone in india to do the leg work. we could also brainstorm stats we could have them determine. doing this might be a fun break in between games since it seems weve been playing alot lately

so stats include
wolf % (and what average % would be for people in that set of games)
w/l record
avg % of nights survived
wolf w/l record and village w/l record


a spreadsheet might not be as useful as a database but that isnt as cheap as a southeast asian excel worker

racist ban

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'm going to stick with the fact that I'm objectively the worst WW player in FTR history.

[dhubermex]

for like 20 seconds the other day i considered making a spreadsheet of all werewolf games ever and include everyones W/L record and personal survival stats.

if someone can type up step by step instructions on how to make this sheet for a non-native english speaker, ill get someone in india to do the leg work. we could also brainstorm stats we could have them determine. doing this might be a fun break in between games since it seems weve been playing alot lately

so stats include
wolf % (and what average % would be for people in that set of games)
w/l record
avg % of nights survived
wolf w/l record and village w/l record


a spreadsheet might not be as useful as a database but that isnt as cheap as a southeast asian excel worker

Hey there Gabe. If you decide to go through with this, I'd be very interested in the stats for WW Badge purposes. I've put in a request to our development team to create 3 unique badges, each with a 1-99 modifier for: Village, Wolf, Moderator.

The idea is to have a running badge-count of each victory per WW participant.

[dhubermex]

racist ban

Haha, you should try living smack-dab in the middle of Mexico as a 6'2" gringo. I actually had one taxi-cab driver dump me off in the middle of nowhere (true story) recently. He asked where I was from and I told him Texas... gg me. I've dealt with it for 17 years.

All in all though, people are generally nice. The true haters are few-and-far-between-enough that you can just ignore them. I define true "haters" as those who wouldn't give me food if I was starving. I can deal with everyone else.

[baudib]

oh and BID is slowrolling us on pics of his girlfriend btw

[BankItDrew]

Urs is hotter. No point.

[wufwugy]

Noooooooo we can't do stats because then we'd have actual proof about my performance and I won't be able to brag about being awesome because I know nobody will bother double checking.

It's probably a decent idea, but I feel like it may open a can of worms. They would also be quite difficult to sparse out what really happened. For example, Hoopy has been a part of winning village teams a bunch, yet his best village game is probably one where the village lost. The kinds of stats I might like to see are bold-on-wolf ratio, bold-on-wolf-and-successful-lynch ratio, average-days-lived-as-villager/wolf, vig-hit-wolf ratio, seer-hit-wolf ratio, angel-gets-save ratio, lynch-survival ratio, how often your team wins while you're still alive, (number of bolds on you went up to like 60% of total to lynch but you didn't get lynched). These would take a lot of work to figure out

[MadMojoMonkey]

How do you count bolds-on-wolf?
At time of lynch? or anytime?

They mean different things, since bolds early in the day can easily be a question more than an accusation.

[Luco]

What about a simple counter to show times played as villager / wolf / mod? Easy to implement, just remember not to update the stats during a live game

[wufwugy]

How do you count bolds-on-wolf?
At time of lynch? or anytime?

They mean different things, since bolds early in the day can easily be a question more than an accusation.

They can and therein lies some problems with it. Bold at time of lynch is one I think should be its own category, but another category I think should be bolds put on wolves even when they weren't lynched. An example for why is that in a game where the village lost, I died pushing for the lynch of a wolf and my bold was on him. We would hope to be able to account for those sorts of things. In just a W/L scenario, I get one in the L column for that game, but if we're looking at bolds, I spent two whole game days bolded on the wolf, so that would put something like 2 in the good column of the bold-on-wolf vs bold-on-villager ratio

But you're right that it can be problematic since bolds can be used to flush things out. It's complicated. Granted, for the most part somebody should only bold somebody when they think that somebody is a wolf

[wufwugy]

What about a simple counter to show times played as villager / wolf / mod? Easy to implement, just remember not to update the stats during a live game

It's a good starting point. I guess the sort of thing we could do is add more stats that we think we should as we go. We have the records