New game in January: Vanilla ++ Jan. 5

Originally Posted by daven

so the first player to shoot wuf gets a special power?
IN

shhhhhhh

Originally Posted by wufwugy

I think MMM's issue, which is reasonable, is the "good play" clause. It's probably better for the clause to be "roles will be handed out based on predetermined factors known only by the mod"

I think I'm on board with this. It would make me feel better to know that the predetermined factors were published somewhere online prior to game start. The file may remain hidden until after the game's end, but it would be nice to know that the mod wasn't writing themselves unlimited license to tweak the game once it's in motion.

Originally Posted by daven

so the first player to shoot wuf gets a special power?

Epic pre-game soulread.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

I think I'm on board with this. It would make me feel better to know that the predetermined factors were published somewhere online prior to game start. The file may remain hidden until after the game's end, but it would be nice to know that the mod wasn't writing themselves unlimited license to tweak the game once it's in motion.

oh yeah. posting in dead thread is a fine idea.

FWIW, I understand the sentiment of wanting to reward certain things.

I strongly considered mentioning JKDS's vig gun in every mod-post from that point forward to see if someone would grab for the gun, either in-thread or as a PM. I would have let them become the vig, obv.

Ultimately, I decided that I really should have learned my lesson about mod-intervention by that point in the game.

***
I love the idea of starting on N0 with an auction. I.e., assign no roles or alignments. Describe the roles available in-game. Everyone sends the mod a PM with their preferred roles listed from most desired to least desired. The mod assigns roles based on first come, first served with the top role available on their list.

Once all roles have been assigned, mod sends out role PM's and D1 begins.

I'm strongly considering running a role madness game with this start at some point.

^^funny, i was thinking along similar lines

we would know roles are not random, but we still would have to guess who has what

Originally Posted by baudib

oh yeah. posting in dead thread is a fine idea.

If you post your "good play" guidelines in the dead thread prior to game start, then I'll play.

I'm really not trying to bully you into anything, but if you don't reward me for most fun had while playing the game on D1, I will

Stupid fucking animal. It's chained to whatever, and smaller than the kid. It has a funny kick. Fucking funny. I bet the little cunt won't find an adult human's kick to be funny. Even with those fucking sandals on.

Stop talking, you'd be dead already.

Oh, another page.

edited

let's make the start date Jan. 5

jan 6. i need all of jan 5 to ruminate on how badly im going to beat you numbskulls

Seeking that sweet redemption!

IN

I suggest having a one on one night chat.

Yes. We should test that thing out, since I didn't get a chance to do it last game.

(U C wat I did ther, BID?)

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I suggest having a one on one night chat.

This could be interesting, particularly if v-w

It would be funny if the wolf accidentally posted in the wrong qt or something and gave himself away

nobody is that stupid

<3 u guys too

dicks

could we ever get a live game going? my friend showed me one of 16 people playing over skype on twitch. we should play a ftr game like this before we die

Originally Posted by Luco

It would be funny if the wolf accidentally posted in the wrong qt or something and gave himself away

please dont be me

Originally Posted by gabe

could we ever get a live game going? my friend showed me one of 16 people playing over skype on twitch. we should play a ftr game like this

I thought scheduling would be the roadblock to this happening.

However, I recently took part in a company meeting via GoToMeeting. (I believe it's like skype, but I am not too familiar with either, really.)
The scheduling of the meeting was done online with an interactive calendar.
There were time slots on each day for the coming weeks.
I marked the time slots I could attend, as did everyone else.


I'm saying that I originally thought that this concept for a game with FTR would be impossible to schedule. Now that I know there are online tools to manage the schedule, I'm far more optimistic about this being a possible event.

... and it sounds fun

... so I'd be in

Originally Posted by gabe

before we die

wolfy.

Don't call it a comeback, I'VE BEEN HERE FOR YEARS.

IN.

Also, I'm back in 'MERICA (been back for a while) so, like, I won't fuck the game up this time.

I may make a new avatar in celebration of boogs return.

boog has missed most of the best games

Originally Posted by BankItDrew

I may make a new avatar in celebration of boogs return.

changed your sig for you BID in honour of boogs return

Hilarity in night chat aside, BID improved his wolf game tremendously. I'm left wondering what the problem ever was and how it got fixed. Maybe he just got comfortable. Maybe it was the modding. Whatever it was, the clownshoes from before appears gone

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Hilarity in night chat aside, BID improved his wolf game tremendously. I'm left wondering what the problem ever was and how it got fixed. Maybe he just got comfortable. Maybe it was the modding. Whatever it was, the clownshoes from before appears gone

how, trying to lynch gabe on day 1 was opportunisitic for a wolf and something a villager wouldn't have tried.

Thanks, wuf, but I think you're giving me too much credit. 90% Of the time, I'm on cruise control in WW.

I don't understand how or who someone is shooting themselves in the foot after I mentioned changing my avatar.

Keith?

Yeah, Keith... it's not like BID was a wolf last game who accidentally shot himself in the foot by posting a private comment to the village vig about how to win as a wolf or anything.

That would never happen in a million years.

What gives?

Holy cow. That happened so long ago.

Y'all needa remember BID's old wolf game. Infuriatingly bad. He'd vanish for a week then pop in just to say LOLOLOLOL then re-vanish

Opportunistically lynching Gabe and shooting himself in the foot is a huge improvement

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Opportunistically lynching Gabe and shooting himself in the foot is a huge improvement

LOLOLOLOLOL

Motherfuck.

Originally Posted by Keith

how, trying to lynch gabe on day 1 was opportunisitic for a wolf and something a villager wouldn't have tried.

Ehh, I feel like the 'too good to lynch d1' thing is losing traction anyway

Originally Posted by Luco

Ehh, I feel like the 'too good to lynch d1' thing is losing traction anyway

I wouldn't go that far, but I think I get your point.

I haven't been playing in these games for too long, but gabe's reputation precedes my join-up date. I have not seen a game where gabe lived past D3 (with personal fault for voting for him at least a couple of times).

So while I know that he's got the skills based on personal interactions I've had with him, I have not really witnessed his skills in action.

I have not seen gabe wolf in any way that was profound or effective. (I saw him get modkilled in the anon game.)

So for me, personally, I think gabe's threat level to the village is not very high, and his help to the village is notable.
The threat of ong/Luco/rong/Keith/daven (in no particular order) looms much greater in my mind.

rep is terribly overrated. jkds ong and maybe baud are probably the best players here merely because of their experiences in different games with advanced strategies and a deeper understanding of general dynamics

imo killing players based on rep is almost always wrong. instead it should be about denying (or preserving, depending on alignment) narrative control. great players get tripped up on a regular basis, but it's very hard for any team to come back from losing the narrative.

Am I in the right place? Wuf spoke of the best players here and didn't mention himself.

Originally Posted by BooG690

Am I in the right place? Wuf spoke of the best players here and didn't mention himself.

bigred's IRL issues:



Seriously tough... Mind blown that a cat is seeing the visual swirley trick.
I don't know why it would be weird, but it caught me by surprise.
bigred

Originally Posted by wufwugy

rep is terribly overrated. jkds ong and maybe baud are probably the best players here merely because of their experiences in different games with advanced strategies and a deeper understanding of general dynamics

imo killing players based on rep is almost always wrong. instead it should be about denying (or preserving, depending on alignment) narrative control. great players get tripped up on a regular basis, but it's very hard for any team to come back from losing the narrative.

I don't think I'm one of the top 6-7 players here.

The rest of your post is interesting.

The bit about narrative control sounds like he's flirting with genius.
It's wuf, so this ambiguous use of words probably means that he was exactly flirting with genius.

I'm curious to see if he develops this idea into more than a vague notion.

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by baudib

I don't think I'm one of the top 6-7 players here.

I included you because you have experience with all sorts of structural dynamics that we don't. JKDS uses them a lot, Ong as well, but none of the FTR purists (like me) seem to. They can be very powerful tools.

A while back Ong said the main difference between MS and FTR is that over there they try to read into the tendencies of the game, where on FTR we try to read into the tendencies of the individuals. That's not his wording, but it is what I gathered from what he said.

Have I mentioned narrative control before? I know I typed up a big post on it not too long ago, but probably deleted it. It's one of those things that I don't necessarily want people to know I think that way, but it doesn't matter. Talking about it is probably better anyways

The short of it is that without cinching via specials, the team that wins the last couple game days is almost always the team that dominates the sentiments of the voters.

Take the game Hoopy modded for example. Some time after Baud and Gator nommed Bigred and Aubrey outed as the seer, Baud stated that he thinks he and Gator would have won if he hadn't convinced Gator away from nomming Aubrey instead. I'm not sure I agree, and the reason is because the seer chase Baud and Gator had been on for multiple night phases had led them down a path away from narrative control. Seer hunting was high-risk even when successful. Dhubs and Bigred were doing nothing. They had no power to convince other players away from mislynches. But they were the final two noms due to this seer hunt. Meanwhile, JKDS and I were doing a ton. We were the biggest day phase threats, but the wolves left us alive.

Let's look at three different scenarios.

What actually happened on Day 5:

BID
Luco
wuf
baudib
JKDS
aubrey
Gator
rong

The seer outs (because the seer always outs here). Two wolves in a group of three: Luco Baud Gator. One cursed in the whole field


What could have happened if JKDS and I were nommed instead of Dmex and Bigred:

BID
Luco
dhubermex
baudib
bigred
aubrey
Gator
rong

Aubrey outs, making the wolf list the same: Gator Luco Baud and the cursed anybody

But all of a sudden, the village is not so hot. None of the remaining villagers were putting in much effort. None of them were in a position to rally votes. Even Rong, in his old active style, was never a village leader. So now from the wolves perspective, they have to try to find a way to trick this list:

BID
dhubermex
bigred
aubrey
rong

You couldn't ask for a village more unable to control the narrative. That has nothing to do with the soulreading skills of the players, just that their styles are not aggressive or consensus forming. This opens up all the doors for the wolves, even in the dire situation of an outed seer. I think they would have seen the power in a fake seer outing, and that if they can just nail the cursed, they'd be the favorites to win.


Now for the wolves' most preferred outcome, where they hit Aubrey instead of Bigred:

BID
Luco
Wuf
baudib
bigred
JKDS
Gator
rong

Now there is no seer outing, but to win the wolves still have to get a mislynch or two. But now they're relying more on luck since the two villagers controlling the narrative, me and JKDS, were unlikely to be thrown from any good read we got, and we could almost assuredly get other players to back us up. This gets to the heart of why I think wolfing is much harder than it may seem. A strong village by a d5 endgame is so so so hard to deal with. In some ways harder than dealing with a handful of confirmed low-activity villagers.

Killing the seer wouldn't necessarily save the day for them. Coming into d5, my two most suspicious characters were Luco and Gator, and I was quietly sitting on a read over Baud. I think there is no way JKDS or I would have bolded each other. It's very unlikely we would have thought BID was a wolf anymore due to the previous Daven lynch day. All of a sudden, the field of wolves is STILL very small in the eyes of the villagers controlling the narrative even though the seer was killed before outing


All that said, I'm not expressing an opinion on what the wolves should have done, just that the seer-chasing that led them away from narrative control had its own risks, especially if they missed (which is what happened)

Bla bla bla bla bla let's play.

good to see that newboog is sameboog as oldboog

Originally Posted by BooG690

Bla bla bla bla bla let's play.

My thoughts exactly.

Well, maybe not exactly. I only thought three blahs.

I've actually decided I don't care about getting better at WW.

I stopped caring about getting better when I reached perfection around a year and a half ago.

I will be quieter than usual this game regardless of role. January is a very busy month for me

Originally Posted by Luco

FYP

I will win regardless of role, January is a very busy month for me.

Here's a thought: playing when you just don't care is very +ev in the long term.

Sad isn't it.

No, I've not been drinking. Who said that?

monsieur rong forgets that he'll be the policy lynch

Here's a tip for any vig who wants to make it look like I'm the vig... shoot rong.

funny if rong is the vig .....could see bid making that play though .

First half of January will be super busy for me.

No need to worry about me wolfing if I'm quiet, unless of course I am a wolf, which I won't be, probably.

January is a great month for me to play WW

quack

I just wanted to see that avatar again. It makes me happy.

i have a boatload to do in jan. this is a game i seriously dont want to get wolf. which means i probably will

i might have to delay a couple days. I think we need a couple more, too.

yea im going to be moving around a bunch starting the 5th but i might as well be in the game anyway

do you guys have the willpower to hold off until march and have the most intense game ever??

Originally Posted by gabe

yea im going to be moving around a bunch starting the 5th but i might as well be in the game anyway

do you guys have the willpower to hold off until march and have the most intense game ever??

Sure, I can wait until March.

In the meantime, let's play a game!

Send an invite to settecba. I told him about WW in IRC a little while ago and he was interested.

I haven't seen him post in a few, but it's worth a shot.

Have we started yet?

If baudib's game is fizzled, then someone else mod a game.

I did the last one.

Yeah hurry up baudib before someone else steals your mod.

im going to mod a game this year but i cant do this one. i will have another freeroll for $ that is bigger than the last one. i have no ideas on how to make it "secure" (no cheating etc.) i would love to have only "regs" in the game that i wouldnt have to worry about colluding to win money. but im never sure on how to guarantee that

I'm board...let's roll, britches!