Congrats to the Village of Sandford!!!

Awesome modding JKDS.

Stalker/stalkee: Boog/rilla

Oh hey!

So I added a bunch of things to the game, and i want to gauge peoples opinions on them.

1) Romeo/Juliet aka Lovers: This was an idea i thought was completely original...but found it has been used in other mafia games (not on this site). What did you guys think about this role? Was it fair? I wasnt sure how a traitor wolf would effect the game, but was happy with how it turned out. There was a lot of potential for romeo to just fuck the wolves through dickery, but that didnt happen. Is that a likely scenario you think? I really liked this role myself.

2) Curses: These were meant to just add some fun to the game. The Haiku one was done really really well (nice fucking job rilla), but it was done so well that i felt it was too restrictive. Other than that, i liked them.
-Curse of Haiku
-Curse of the web (images/gif)
-Curse of youth (24hr silence)
-Curse of streaming (must start each post with an advertisement)

3)Stalker/stalkee: Another uncommon role that exists elsewhere but i thought was an original idea. I ended up not liking it, as I saw the imbalance on this one the second rilla was picked as the stalkee. Honestly i should have lied and switched it to someone else, but it worked out. Boog might have just ducked out because he saw the potential of rilla dying early, but idk. Didnt get a chance to see this role play out, but i dont think it was a good idea.

4) Achievements: Again, i got jipped out of this being original. Theres a game type called XShot where everyone is given powers at the start of the game and this is very similar to that. I liked the achievement idea myself, but it could get unbalanced for either side pretty quickly if one team got lucky.

I had plans to separate achievements so each side was guaranteed a certain number...but ended up throwing it out. 1 plan was to have a "Kill Player random.org" achievement for the wolves where i would tell them to get some player killed on a specific day. That felt too wrong though and i got rid of it.

5) new powers: Honestly, and this wasnt my intention, most of the powers ended up canceling each other out. Idk if this was just becasue yall are too damn good or what. Are any of these something you hated or liked a lot?

6) The Hipster: This is a type that isnt common on these games, but that i did steal. Another potential third party wins when he gets a certain player killed. Another wins when he gets killed (joker). We've never had this role before, and i wanted to test it out. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Oh hey!

Oh, as for the powers i didnt let other groups have.

Vigilante was villager only.

Suicide bomb was villager and wolf only.

Governor could not be given to the wolves or romeo. Juliet was ok.

I cant remember all the powers but i may have restricted others. Some are just too powerful on the opposing team. The angel power was not restricted at all though.

I only have 2 complaints. 1 was for the game starting at night because it gives the wolves a chance to kill someone before the game begins.

The other was that an achievement that ong won identified someone's role as one of 3, which seems kinda wonky.

Otherwise, the game design was incredible.

Yeah I don't think any game should start at night. Obv the story is supposed to start at night, but the mod can just use a non-player name to nom to get that rolling. Every player should be involved in the first lynching

It all turned out pretty well I think, I could say a lot but the two main things that I noticed:
- the haiku curse really was cursing someone and restricting them, making someone post a gif or an advertisement just a small nuisance with no relevance to their ability to communicate. So apart from the haiku it felt like it didn't matter who I put a curse on, the only consideration was "what would people think of this person being cursed, will it make him look more villager or more wolf?" I think every curse should limit communication somehow, not as much as a haiku curse ofcourse, but in a way that it matters who is cursed.
- the achievements unlocking powers was real cool, the only problem is that if a person wants to take it to the extreme to try and unlock them, they are encouraged to spam the thread. As an example, the first thing I did was a double post, but it was BR that got an achievement for quadruple posting lateron. Let's say there is a new game with achievements, maybe I will want to spam 2 pages full of all the gifs and everything I can think of that could unlock an achievement. (basically they have to be chosen very carefully if we want to reuse this)

Great modding. I thought the additions were a good start, but the curses should be some form of restriction - like the haiku curse.

Romeo and Juliet was EXTREMELY fun to play - kinda tough with the small field but with a larger field would be more balanced. The worst part was not being able to plan an attack with each other.

And like JV wrote: there should be some sort of rules set for the achievements to prevent spam.

All in all - great game

I want to thank everyone for playing too. Ive never modded something before, and its HARD lol. I think at least half the people i gave powers too i had to pm multiple times to clarify things.

@Rilla: I forgot! So ill give my thoughts on that now. I may have been mistaken, idk.

1st: I felt the wolves were at a big disadvantage this game.
-With an even number of players, the village has a better chance of winning than if they had 1 more or 1 less.
-Romeo can fuck them hard
-most powers are pro village, and have saving potential
-secrets and incomplete information can absolutely destroy the wolves. i thought i was gonna shit my pants when wufwugy posted that he knew for a fact the other 3 wolves and that they should give up. Faking an unlocked power that was strong enough to do that is terrifying. (the wolves were quiet until long after wuf posted his greatest post ever)
-----fakeouts are much stronger in this game imo and are more provillage
-the existence of the hipster

2nd: The hipster was there to force the wolves to target people. I wanted them to need to work at finding players like the hipster, since there wasnt a seer/angel to go after. A direct effect of the hipster was that players acting unhipsterlike would be less likely to be eaten. They were able to talk a bit at night do this.

3rd: It was possible to unlock protection powers on night 1. There were 3? of them i believe that could have potentially stopped the kill. Its hard to get them, i agree. But its a small factor that balances it a bit.

Given the wolves disadvantages and the potential for villagers to change their night 1 fate, i gave the wolves the chance to kill. (I know it takes awhile to set up the skype/forum for wolves, so there would be guaranteed time to post before they had it set up. Its rare to see wolf kills that arent agreed to by the other wolves).

I agree that it does suck though, and even with my justification im not happy i chose it. If the hipster/stalkee/juliet were killed night 1, i would have been kicking myself for stupidity. Nevermind how antifun it is for the first dead.

You could simply make all achievements simply for posting a particular number post, ie like how I got one for posting first, but day give one for post number 17, 84, 181 etc, that way its implement fair and there's no incentive to spam.

Ya the spam at the beginning was soooo bad lol. It seems like most of you liked the achievement idea, so i might keep it in (with a bunch of tweeks) next time.

Another option, is to just say fuck em and start the game with all the powers preassigned. Ill still keep them hidden, but thats a way to avoid achievements entirely while keeping the multiple powers aspect of it.

Originally Posted by JKDS

1) Romeo/Juliet aka Lovers: This was an idea i thought was completely original...but found it has been used in other mafia games (not on this site). What did you guys think about this role? Was it fair? I wasnt sure how a traitor wolf would effect the game, but was happy with how it turned out. There was a lot of potential for romeo to just fuck the wolves through dickery, but that didnt happen. Is that a likely scenario you think? I really liked this role myself.

One of them landing as a wolf is beast as fuck. Everything about Romeo/Juliet is great; it's the perfect third team IMO. I can't believe I didn't think of it, as I have spent a good deal of time trying to figure out a good third team idea

It's possible it works better when one of them always is a wolf and one a villager, but I'm not sure.

2) Curses: These were meant to just add some fun to the game. The Haiku one was done really really well (nice fucking job rilla), but it was done so well that i felt it was too restrictive. Other than that, i liked them.
-Curse of Haiku
-Curse of the web (images/gif)
-Curse of youth (24hr silence)
-Curse of streaming (must start each post with an advertisement)

I like this sort of thing. I think we would need to think of what sort of cursing should be done and then figure out good ones to meet that criteria. For example, curse of the web is fun but doesn't really help those doing the cursing, curse of youth isnt fun and kinda helps those doing the cursing. Personally, I don't know how to use this, and would think to try something like how we thought achievements could be role-specific i.e. villagers get powers and wolves get curses

Also, could just make fun/silly curses that the mod delivers to whoever he wants each day. That could be cool

3)Stalker/stalkee: Another uncommon role that exists elsewhere but i thought was an original idea. I ended up not liking it, as I saw the imbalance on this one the second rilla was picked as the stalkee. Honestly i should have lied and switched it to someone else, but it worked out. Boog might have just ducked out because he saw the potential of rilla dying early, but idk. Didnt get a chance to see this role play out, but i dont think it was a good idea.

I don't like it because it doesn't make things more interesting

4) Achievements: Again, i got jipped out of this being original. Theres a game type called XShot where everyone is given powers at the start of the game and this is very similar to that. I liked the achievement idea myself, but it could get unbalanced for either side pretty quickly if one team got lucky.

I had plans to separate achievements so each side was guaranteed a certain number...but ended up throwing it out. 1 plan was to have a "Kill Player random.org" achievement for the wolves where i would tell them to get some player killed on a specific day. That felt too wrong though and i got rid of it.

I think it's great, but some tweaking is good. Things like achievements aren't the most obvious things to get. For example, I didn't like "first to post" achievement, yet did like "first to make JKDS laugh" achievement

5) new powers: Honestly, and this wasnt my intention, most of the powers ended up canceling each other out. Idk if this was just becasue yall are too damn good or what. Are any of these something you hated or liked a lot?

I think we can figure some interesting things out. Like we can take all the cool special roles, and make them just one-off uses. Could make them role-specific like villagers can unlock one vig, one projected-angel, one personal-angel, one-day reanimation, one seer (two or three achievements are "one seer"), one counter attack, one upgrade; wolves can unlock other stuff like blocking a night action (which looks just like an angel block), their own personal seers looking for specials or something

6) The Hipster: This is a type that isnt common on these games, but that i did steal. Another potential third party wins when he gets a certain player killed. Another wins when he gets killed (joker). We've never had this role before, and i wanted to test it out. Thoughts?

I kinda don't like it. I really like Romeo and Juliet winning when they're the last two left, but the hipster is either boring to try to find or lame in a flash-win



Also, wolves don't necessarily have to be able to earn achievements, they could just earn achievement blocks. Like if they earn the vig achievement, they just erase it from the village being able to earn it

Originally Posted by rong

You could simply make all achievements simply for posting a particular number post, ie like how I got one for posting first, but day give one for post number 17, 84, 181 etc, that way its implement fair and there's no incentive to spam.

So I can get all the achievements by spamming 20 pages full before anyone else can post?

I love the achievement block idea, and also the powerfinder idea for the wolves.

For the problem of spamming I think we need different types of unlocking. Like I was thinking if I was the mod I would do achievements like

-first to misspell wufwugy
-first to say how awesome wufwugy is
-first to post picture of girl wufwugy thinks is hot
-first to make up name for wufwugy e.g. egowugy, failwugy, teh wufwuginator...

My point is a neat variety of achievements could keep people from spamming for "omg quadposts"

I liked the Romeo and Juliet role. I have to admit that I had a post typed and and was going to post it, but had second thoughts. It was a more deatiled fake outing, and it had a means for me and shotty to communicate without people knowing who was talking to me, but I thought getting her to just tell me who the wolves were and pretend I was a seer getting the info was lame and against the spirit of the game, so I bailed on that one.

Very tough to play the role though, because I know shotty is a wolf and I don't want to see her get into trouble. So when people start saying she's a wolf, I panic. I can't imagine how tough it is to stop the wolves nomming me without making it obvious we have a separate win condition.

I named all three remaining wolves in my last pm to JKDS. I played my role very badly, but I read the game better than you guys might think.

I mixed the achievements intentionally to see which ones you guys liked the most. The subjective ones like "First to make me laugh" have a higher potential for corruption than others, but those that have strict requirements are harder to discover yet are spam friendly.

Originally Posted by wufwugy

For the problem of spamming I think we need different types of unlocking. Like I was thinking if I was the mod I would do achievements like

-first to misspell wufwugy
-first to say how awesome wufwugy is
-first to post picture of girl wufwugy thinks is hot
-first to make up name for wufwugy e.g. egowugy, failwugy, teh wufwuginator...

My point is a neat variety of achievements could keep people from spamming for "omg quadposts"

This still encourages spam to try and find all things that can unlock achievements. The only ones that are spam-free is stuff like "last bold on a lynch", or similar things that follow from normal gameplay rather than a peculiarity in your post.

I laughed when I got the first to 50 achievement. I laughed at the pm I got off JKDS too. He called me a whore.

Great game and modding J. Agree it was the best game to date. Coming back in and trying to pick up was tough but I guess most of the shit had already gone down by the time I came back so pretty much was standard WW after that. Unfortunately the responses I got through the rest of the game left a pretty bad taste in my mouth so I don't see myself playing for quite some time.

I hope you know I was just playing a role. The only way you're even considered as a wolf there is for me to put on a full court press. Sorry if I offended.

Personally, I empathized. I might be a sociopath, as wuf said.

Nothing to do with you benny. I think the pressure from you was really the beginning of your demise though. A villager doesn't pounce on me like that there and really the village didn't want to hear anything I had to say.

Btw Benny, happy fathers day.

That was a nice trap, Supa. Until Benny fell for it, I thought the wolves had a strong chance.

I know you're talking about me and I know I've been a dick to you at the end of the last two games now and I dunno what it is. There's no defense to my actions and I should have a better control over how this game affects me, but I dunno. Like Benny says, this game can drive you crazy and I already had enough on my plate figuring out the last two wolves and was in no mood to defend myself against a case that was going to be built entirely on the end of the previous day.

If we were in a must lynch situation, I would have needed to both convince you away from me (a big task) and towards both of the last wolves (both of which were hidden well enough). I just didn't like that prospect at all.

It really isn't just you 'rilla. It's a hard thing to say but playing WW is like being in a room full of the smart kids when in reality I'm a blue collar worker type. I always feel inadequate in this game (probably true for FTR as a whole) which is difficult for me because I rarely feel inadequate irl.

I could go into other shit about it but I won't. Fwiw it wasn't a must lynch situation and there was almost no possibility of a wagon firing up on you at that point. But there were some interesting things you said that had to be looked at and talked about. That with you pressuring me in the same way Benny was made you more a wolf in my eyes than in the others.

Originally Posted by Shotglass

That was a nice trap, Supa. Until Benny fell for it, I thought the wolves had a strong chance.

Thanks Shottie. Got some Jack here. A toast to you.

Sorry for making you feel bad. I guess it never really sunk in that it was a trap you laid either. Which shows you had a more clever grasp of the situation than I did. I had worked myself into a little FPS corner with rong and I would have never worked my way out of it.

Even with rong successfully protecting wuf which put the wolves in a real tough spot, and Benny throwing in the towel, I was still putting together a scenario or two where rong was the last wolf.

This game can be incredibly hard because the enemy sometimes is your ignorance of your ignorance. The things you don't know you don't know can sink you quick.

And the sick thing is, it's easier to see it in others than it is to see it in yourself.

Originally Posted by Shotglass

That was a nice trap, Supa. Until Benny fell for it, I thought the wolves had a strong chance.

I can't say I saw a trap but there's probably no other play I have there. If I manage to convince rilla or if jv shows up and votes, we're flipping. If I manage to do both, game's over.

Wow. Looks like I missed a pretty cool game. I am pretty busy with life these days, but would be interested in joining the next game when it starts.

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

I can't say I saw a trap but there's probably no other play I have there. If I manage to convince rilla or if jv shows up and votes, we're flipping. If I manage to do both, game's over.

It was a difficult situation. Basically it came down to if Rilla was going to vote Rong (then we win), but he had said multiple times he would be voting TLR which made me hesitant to vote anything. I knew what Supa was doing when I saw his bold, that he would rescind, so I couldn't count it in. I thought we were going to sacrifice TLR and take it to the next day to try and get Rong lynched tbh.

But as it turned out, both me and Rilla had the deadline wrong. If we had both not made this mistake, and I banded on Rong, he votes TLR, then TLR dies 4-3 and all 3 of us wolves were sitting on the same bandwagon, which looked to me to be super obvious that we were the wolves. As it played out, Rilla never voted so I could have last-second voted Rong and we would have flipped for the win. But when I calculated the deadline into my timezone, it was already 10 minutes too late. Too bad.

I just caught up on the game, kind of surprised at the ending. JKDS, great job modding this one, loved the achievements and new roles.

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

I can't say I saw a trap but there's probably no other play I have there. If I manage to convince rilla or if jv shows up and votes, we're flipping. If I manage to do both, game's over.

It's only a flip if I don't vote TLR. Which was the plan to do before the day ended, but then my Mom called me on skype from the other side of the world which was shit timing. I still would've gotten the vote in I think though. Up til that point I was refreshing like every few seconds.

What is this conspiracy against me!?!? lynch gator

Originally Posted by jackvance

This still encourages spam to try and find all things that can unlock achievements. The only ones that are spam-free is stuff like "last bold on a lynch", or similar things that follow from normal gameplay rather than a peculiarity in your post.

Yeah I didn't explain it well at all. I mean a variety of things that people can't guess at, but most of which are bound to happen over the course of the game

BTW Supa, I thought you did well. And those of us who talk a lot aren't as smart as some would like to think

Originally Posted by supa

It's only a flip if I don't vote TLR. Which was the plan to do before the day ended, but then my Mom called me on skype from the other side of the world which was shit timing. I still would've gotten the vote in I think though. Up til that point I was refreshing like every few seconds.

Oh yeah I forgot to add that scenario, my plan was basically (after I saw Benny vote) that if I could tie it, I would do so at the very last second. I never got there but imagine I had not gotten the time wrong, we would have basically been refreshing up to each-other to get that vote in lol.

Originally Posted by GatorJH

Wow. Looks like I missed a pretty cool game. I am pretty busy with life these days, but would be interested in joining the next game when it starts.

Yeah we totally need more peeps again

Originally Posted by OngBonga

I liked the Romeo and Juliet role. I have to admit that I had a post typed and and was going to post it, but had second thoughts. It was a more deatiled fake outing, and it had a means for me and shotty to communicate without people knowing who was talking to me, but I thought getting her to just tell me who the wolves were and pretend I was a seer getting the info was lame and against the spirit of the game, so I bailed on that one.

Man that would have sucked. That is a problem I forgot existed for that sort of role. I'm sure the problem can be mitigated somehow, perhaps if one doesn't know when/if other is a wolf

I liked modding, and gotten some good feedback on improving the format I used. I have two crazy ideas for lightning werewolf games as well. In a month or two, if no one else has started a new game, ill start one of these in motion. People seem pretty burned out right now though, and other people might want to mod.

Originally Posted by JKDS

2nd: The hipster was there to force the wolves to target people. I wanted them to need to work at finding players like the hipster, since there wasnt a seer/angel to go after. A direct effect of the hipster was that players acting unhipsterlike would be less likely to be eaten. They were able to talk a bit at night do this.

I hadn't considered this. The hipster might be a good role for this reason alone

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Man that would have sucked. That is a problem I forgot existed for that sort of role. I'm sure the problem can be mitigated somehow, perhaps if one doesn't know when/if other is a wolf

I think the way to beat this kind of lameness would be simply to let the village know from the start that there's a Romeo and Juliet; if the village know this then it would not be nearly as easy to find a way to communicate without getting lynched.

I like the idea of one wolf and one villager with their own win condition. Definitely want to see a similar game format in the future.

How were all the achievements activated?

Mine was for the first 750 word post. Fitting that I would have gotten that; could have been ironic that I almost didn't make any large posts in this game.

BTW Dana The Greatest Post There Ever Was Or Will Be is a Game of Thrones reference. Plus I try to do that sort of uber post once per game, at least in some form

Originally Posted by GatorJH

Wow. Looks like I missed a pretty cool game. I am pretty busy with life these days, but would be interested in joining the next game when it starts.

Hey homes, hope you play again. I don't think you saw these, I made em after I got you lynched on that awesomely elaborate yet stupid conspiracy theory. You'll be happy to know that we ended up losing that game because of me

Oh thats right, i forgot the owned achievements werent all revealed.

Best Medicine: First to make me laugh, awarded to benny

The Greater Good: First to identify the theme/say something hot fuzz related, awarded to rilla

TLDR: First to make a 750 word post, awarded to wufinator

First: posting first, awarded to rong

Durrr: First to post poker related content, awarded to Rilla

Cant Stand Ya: Lynch boog, awarded to gizmo

Loved this game.

I think with curses the Haiku one was great. The silence isn't so good, they should limit communication but not stop it entirely imo. So maybe something like Haiku, one line posts only, limit of 5 posts in a day, images only, can only talk in 3rd person and use no names.

Hipster was a good choice to give the wolves something to aim for at night. In a normal game with seer/angel I don't think it's needed.

Romeo/Juliet was awesome.

Probably best to start on day 1 rather than night 1.

Supa, for the record, my "can we trade Supa for someone else" comment was purely down to you attacking me the moment you rejoined the game, no offence was intended.

Rilla was a bit harsh on you yesterday, I was surprised by that as its not what I expect from him. But I can understand his frustrations when others don't share his perspective on the game and are seeing something differently that you can sometimes post in a dickish manner and have certainly been guilty of that before (sorry tlr and wuf, its mainly you 2 I get frustrated with and can be a bit rude to)

Re your smart folk, blue collar comment. I think your trap kinda proved you wrong if you see what I mean. But I can totally relate to what you're saying. But don't sit out the next game, you're a valuable member of the game.

Wuf's DAN IS A WOLF was making me laugh. I had Dan as a lock villager because he kept going on about me and shotty being linked. Why would a wolf say that and bring heat on a fellow wolf when it's true?

Also, shotglass told us all that gizmo was a villager, but no-one but me noticed. I'd have laughed so hard if you muppets lynched him.

Referring to me and gizmo...

Originally Posted by Shotglass

He's likely a villager - why in the hell would he admit to cursing another villager if he were a wolf...that's just screaming "HANG ME"

Sloppy!

Benny told us he was a wolf...

Originally Posted by BennyLaRue

Paragraph 1 - Yeah, don't think about why we're nomming who we nom.

Very sloppy!

If benny went on to win, this too would have made me laugh.

Sup ong, remember when I shot you in the face?

Jkds, that was a fun game. I'm more than ok with you continuing to mod in the future. Also, were you the one who linked me to that crazy game with color promotions, items, Factions, etc? It could be fun to brainstorm a game like that , comod, etc.

Also, can we ban BID from playing?