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ed cooper
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03-07-2010, 01:15 PM
Post subject: when to push...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: istanbul
Posts: 183
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hi guys
this is my first post so hello to all. been reading for a while but not written anything as yet.
bought sitngowizard a few mths back and its really helped my game.. i have a question regarding pushes late on. i understand that when were at 10bb s, its push or fold. but for example, when youre on the button and have sth like ace 6, even with 16bb s, wiz is telling us to push (with noone else in pot). normally i go with this but im wondering if its too ugly. ie can we afford to just raise?
the same applies when in the sb. sometimes with a semi-decent hand and around 20bb s, were being told to push. if thats what you guys are doing then no probs, ill continue in the same vain; i was just curious as this could be a leak in my game.
hope this makes sense. thanks in advance,
ed
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fulksy
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton,Canada
Posts: 1,018
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it also depends on opponents stack size if opponent/s is/are around 10 BB or under then just open shove. i believe SnGwiz only will tell you to shove it won't tell you to raise ( i haven't had it for quite a while, but i assume this is the case.) used more for times when your stack is <10 BB, so if you have 20 BB its generally just a standard raise.
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,436
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Hi and welcome to FTR, it's great to have you here.
Yeah, pretty much what fulksy said, SNG Wiz is focused on push/fold so it won't and can't tell you to standard raise. To take an extreme example, if you run a hand where you have AA UTG on the very first hand, it will tell you that a shove is +EV (which it obviously is) but that doesn't mean by any means that shoving is the optimal course of action.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,565
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to restate, SNG Wiz can tell you shoving is better than folding, you have to figure out what other options you have.
consider min raising with awkward stacks where shoves seem to fold out hands you beat & don't fold hands that beat you, but 3x will leave you in bad spots. Esp true before antes. You will find in today's poker world min raises tend to make people play very badly.
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ed cooper
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: istanbul
Posts: 183
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thanks very much for the replies...
regarding tai's example with aces, i thought wiz is assuming raise, reraise et al, hence telling us to push.
this is why it led me to confusion, as with my example, i wouldnt feel comfortable calling a reraise with ace 6, unless i was priced into it of course.
interestingly, i asked my friend his opinion on wiz last year, and he said it was 'a bit simple'. i think he prefers pokerstove. perhaps this example cites his reasoning.
anyway, enough for now. happy cards...
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fulksy
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton,Canada
Posts: 1,018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed cooper
thanks very much for the replies...
regarding tai's example with aces, i thought wiz is assuming raise, reraise et al, hence telling us to push.
this is why it led me to confusion, as with my example, i wouldnt feel comfortable calling a reraise with ace 6, unless i was priced into it of course.
interestingly, i asked my friend his opinion on wiz last year, and he said it was 'a bit simple'. i think he prefers pokerstove. perhaps this example cites his reasoning.
anyway, enough for now. happy cards...
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tai wasn't assuming raise, reraise. sngwiz will only tell you push, fold or call. tai was just saying that it will tell you to push (because it doesn't say raise) and even though pushing will make you money long term it won't make you the most money.
also you poker stove is different then sngwiz. pokerstove will tell you the equity you have in a specific hand vs opponents range (which you need to decide and enter.) sngwiz is similar in the fact that it will determine your equity vs opponents range but it is combined with an icm calculator to determine what is the best course of action ( The EV of a specific decision). Sng wiz is used primarily on bubble situations or when you have a stack <10 BB. i don't have sngwiz right now but its recommended by most here to have both.
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