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Scuba Chuck

11-02-2005, 09:47 AM Post subject: The Stop N Go

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 1,101

There seems to be some misuse of the stop n go move. And I think the discussion deserves its own post. I think one of the most common mistakes of the stop n go is doing it with too strong of a hand. Anyway, I will start with the note my mentor sent me.

"Think of a stop n go this way - when you know that you'll get called preflop on a push AND you are willing to put all your chips in the middle, do you gain any folding equity with a stop n go? If the answer is yes, then you really have nothing to lose by trying the stop n go. You are planning on putting all your chips in and seeing all five cards vs your opponent, so why not stop n go and try to pick up some folding equity?"

The stop n go is most effectively used in the later game, and usually when you are somewheree near ~ 5 BBs. I have a general rule that I am not willing to fall below 3 BBs, and on Level 4 at party, I hate falling below 500 in general. So I will look to exploit mistakes by my opponents. The following is a great example of a stop n go that I pulled off tonight. UTG had been min-raising and taking down the blinds periodically. IMO, he was min-raising any ace, any pair. I also felt that I was approaching "time" to make a move feelings, as blinds were increasing soon. I like KQ and QJ for stop n gos, in fact, having the hand often reminds me to consider the move. Furthermore, no matter what the flop is, I always move allin after the stop n go. The exception might be if I hit a flop hard, like if it comes KQx or something. But if the flop is just Kxx, or Qxx, you still need to move allin.

Total number of players : 7
Seat 1: TiltMaster00 (600)
Seat 3: mlbee2002 (682)
Seat 4: Abu21 (960)
Seat 5: Scuba_Chuck (690)
Seat 8: afromj (1805)
Seat 9: PokerAce60 (1458)
Seat 10: the_templer (1805)
Abu21 posts small blind (50)
Scuba_Chuck posts big blind (100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Scuba_Chuck [ Kc, Qh ]
afromj raises (200) to 200
PokerAce60 folds.
the_templer folds.
TiltMaster00 folds.
mlbee2002 folds.
Abu21 folds.
Scuba_Chuck calls (100)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6h, 7h, Js ]
Scuba_Chuck bets (490)
Scuba_Chuck is all-In.
afromj folds.

Anyhow, some things that are important to remember. One of the primary purposes of a stop n go, is to try and get better hands to fold, or to get small pairs to fold post flop. Another thing to remember, is if you have a strong hand, don't waste it with a stop n go. For example, if I was shorty, I wouldn't do a stop n go with AJ or 88. Move allin preflop, and try and double up. No regrets if you lose with the best hand preflop, it's just the cards falling in their random patterns when you lose.

Another thing, you don't do a stop n go "move" when you have a valuable precious stack. A stop n go is only done by a small stack, otherwise it's just poker. For example, if button min-raises you, and you're sitting at 20 x BBs on L4, I can see why you might want to call with a hand like KQ getting 3.5:1 pot odds. But this isn't a stop n go. Like I said, it's just poker.

Who is Scuba Chuck?

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vqc

11-02-2005, 09:52 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 5,427

thank you for the great post.
it will be linked to in multiple places

gabe

11-02-2005, 01:33 PM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: trying to live

Posts: 7,964

gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

a quick search yielded some more

***** Hand History for Game 2298682160 *****
NL Hold'em $100 Buy-in + $9 Entry Fee Trny:13593377 Level:6 Blinds(100/200) - Saturday, July 02, 16:24:37 EDT 2005
Table Table 35332 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 10: prohor7 ( $2765 )
Seat 1: jimnova ( $4560 )
Seat 2: tat2joey ( $1600 )
Seat 7: Extratopping ( $1075 )
Trny:13593377 Level:6
Blinds(100/200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Extratopping [ 9c 5c ]
prohor7 folds.
jimnova raises [400].
tat2joey folds.
Extratopping calls [200].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Jd, 3d ]
Extratopping is all-In [675]

Game #773016724: Texas Hold'em No Limit (800/1600) - 2005/08/02 - 18:23:56 (ET)
Table "£15K_GTD 886660 - 3" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 2: Honeybear (5200 in chips)
Seat 3: *P*A*P*A* (11840 in chips)
Seat 4: _stealth (18165 in chips)
Seat 5: ActionAxe (54401 in chips)
Seat 6: gabezor (13675 in chips)
Seat 7: Charwell (33545.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Everestmo (28500 in chips)
Seat 10: Markr2702 (30300 in chips)
ActionAxe: posts the ante 200
gabezor: posts the ante 200
Charwell: posts the ante 200
Everestmo: posts the ante 200
Markr2702: posts the ante 200
Honeybear: posts the ante 200
*P*A*P*A*: posts the ante 200
_stealth: posts the ante 200
ActionAxe: posts small blind 800
gabezor: posts big blind 1600
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to gabezor [Ac 2s]
Charwell: folds
Everestmo: folds
Markr2702: folds
Honeybear: folds
*P*A*P*A*: folds
_stealth: raises to 4800
ActionAxe: folds
gabezor: calls 3200
----- FLOP ----- [Jh Qs Qd]
gabezor: bets 8675 and is all-in
_stealth: folds

tom

11-02-2005, 06:30 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: May 2005

Location: ATX

Posts: 158

I finally foudn a good spot to try the stop & go the other night and I flopped trips, so it turned into a fat slow play. But nice post guys. It's nice havin a few more bullets to shoot at my villains.

a500lbgorilla

11-02-2005, 06:31 PM

#5 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom

The best kind of stop and go! Stop and HOLY SHIT YES!

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Ray Bones

07-14-2006, 06:57 PM Post subject: Stop and Go

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Posts: 9

I just don't see this as a valuable too. In the examples shown the player went all in post flop against the preflop aggressor, who could be holding a large pair and call you. Also the players I've come against are often so loose that they will call you with nothing more than Ace high, or a small pocket pair that doesn't hit the board. Maybe I am missing something here?

swiggidy

07-14-2006, 07:47 PM Post subject: Re: Stop and Go

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Bones

$100 Buy-in + $9

I don't think it holds the same value at low buy-in tourneys.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
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