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ShowMeAtlas
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09-30-2006, 11:45 PM
Post subject: Something that bugs me a little bit...
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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Hi all,
I don't want to sound like a bitchy noob and this forum is just what I need to improve. However, from the admittedly small number of HH threads I have read, it seems as if a lot of the time nobody gives any reads.
I really tink this makes a lot of the analysis pointless. Even just telling us he's a donkey/tight/loose/solid etc or giving quick examples of some earlier hands villain has played or table images... makes for superior subsequent analysis.
Just my 2c. Anyone agree?
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bruinblue
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 329
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that may be true but also remember that most of the advanced SNG players are multitabling to an extreme extent - i personally play anywhere for five-six at a time and im often posting on here as i play, so reads may be coming and going.
i see what youre saying and of course its helpful to have a read on the player but a lot of the time youre really just going off what youve picked up on the three hands you were actually paying attention to the table. therefore, unless i know a player is extremely good or extremely bad, i like to play more or less the same way and basically just play my cards
this of course is somewhat counterintuitive to a real poker player, but at low limit online SNGs, understanding how to play your cards and your postion (!!!!!) is much more important than playing off your opponents.
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r4racer220: every day is lee jones day
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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i think reads are overrated in online poker
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ShowMeAtlas
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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I know where you're coming from but many of these situations are so read dependant that there's basically no point in posting them without said reads.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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Reads that actually affect the situation in any given hand are kind of rare in a SnG. Yeah they occur and yeah I've used them, but they're usually not the most important thing in a SnG at any given time. Often they'll contribute to decisions in a hand, but usually there are more important factors such as stack sizes or postition.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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ShowMeAtlas
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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I disagree. When I'm trying to figure out one of these hands I want to know if the villain is a donkey or solid, tight or loose, how many hands is he playing etc. I'm not looking for someone to post "villain generally waits for 5 seconds before reraising if he's bluffing but this time it was a full 7 seconds....". I'm not claiming you can look into someone's soul over the net and get some magical "tell". Knowing the villains general play is more than enough and essential for making some of these decisions imo.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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It depends.
Often, you're not able to get accurate reads until you've been playing with the player for a good amount of time. The first blind level is usually not enough unless the player has been very active and has been showing down a lot of hands. Even the second or third blind level isn't enough, sometimes, and by the fourth blind level, the SnG is winding down and other factors matter more than a read you might have stumbled upon.
I'm not saying reads don't matter. I'm saying that having a strong read that actually directly contributes (significantly) to a hand is less likely than not having one in a SnG.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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ShowMeAtlas
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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Yes, you've hit on something there. A lot of the hands that I have read are from very early on in the SNG where, IMO, you should be staying out of trouble and only playing premiums. WIthout reads, these are almost always folds. Taking all of that into account, I don't think there's any point in posting such a hand. Do you know what I mean?
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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You're saying that there's no point in posting hands unless you have reads?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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ShowMeAtlas
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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No, I'm saying theres no point in posting these type of hands:
"1st hand so no reads"
Hero in CO with AQs, raises 3xBB
BB calls
flop A89,
Hero leads for 1/2 pot, BB pushes, hero?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ShowMeAtlas
No, I'm saying theres no point in posting these type of hands:
"1st hand so no reads"
Hero in CO with AQs, raises 3xBB
BB calls
flop A89,
Hero leads for 1/2 pot, BB pushes, hero?
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thats a legitimate post, because there a range of hands that we assign to a "unknown." In that case the range would be something like AX, 88+, JT, and you'd call and be good vs. an unknowns range. This is assuming a low stakes tourney. In a 109 or a 215 you'd probably fold there because the unknown's range is decidedly tighter.
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donkbee
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WELP
Join Date: May 2005
Location: so close but so far
Posts: 3,604
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But there's value in talking about the hand and explaining the thought process one should go through when considering a hand like this.
Especially for new players. New players don't realize a lot of the things that need to be considered in poker. That hand you used as an example is a standard fold to someone who somewhat knows how to play poker, but it's not standard to someone new.
Hands like that teach players what is "standard" and what why they are played like that. Tiresome to read the same type hands all the time? Maybe ... but they're useful to some even if they're not useful to you or some of the better players here.
Edit: Interesting case in point here ... Renton just said that you'd probably call in a lower stakes game, whereas I said that it's standard to fold. Guess it's not so standard and that there's actually something to discuss in what you stated was a pointless post!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
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ShowMeAtlas
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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lol. Yeah I suppose there is value in discussing these hands. I just think there would be more if we had "reads"
EDIT: Just to add that I play really low stakes games
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by courtiebee
Edit: Interesting case in point here ... Renton just said that you'd probably call in a lower stakes game, whereas I said that it's standard to fold. Guess it's not so standard and that there's actually something to discuss in what you stated was a pointless post!
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LOL I am a sng fish, I was just applying the best of my logic to it. You play a lot more sngs than me, so it probably is a standard fold like you are saying.
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