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Should I have called for set value?

  
 
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argash
Old 09-30-2009, 07:53 PM     Post subject: Should I have called for set value? #1 (permalink)  
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Maniac was running 45/10 Tight was running 14/11 over 40 hands. I'm pretty sure my fold here is right but would like a second opinion.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 1.25 Tournament, 60/120 Blinds (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

BB (t1760)
UTG (t1175)
Maniac Villian (MP) (t2300)
CO (t2790)
Tight Villian (Button) (t2460)
Hero (SB) (t3015)

Hero's M: 16.75

Preflop: Hero is SB with 10, 10
1 fold, Maniac Villian bets t420, 1 fold, Tight Villian raises to t720, 2 folds, Maniac Villian calls t300

Flop: (t1620) 5, 9, 2 (2 players)
Maniac Villian bets t1580 (All-In), Tight Villian calls t1580

Turn: (t4780) 10 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t4780) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t4780

Results below:
Tight Villian had 8, 8 (one pair, eights).
Maniac Villian had J, J (one pair, Jacks).
Outcome: Maniac Villian won t4780
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rspeirsmlb
Old 09-30-2009, 08:32 PM #2 (permalink)  
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If tight villian were'nt even in the hand it would have been an easy call to maniac villian's MP raise. IMO, I would have folded preflop to the reraise by tight villian, kind of an unfortunate situation though.
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taipan168
Old 09-30-2009, 09:52 PM #3 (permalink)  
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If tight villain wasn't in the hand I'd insta shove over rather than calling. In this situation with your read I think your fold is solid. That kind of pot sweetening min re-raise by tight villain indicates a big hand IMO.
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Lance
Old 10-01-2009, 04:54 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I wouldn't call him a maniac.
You can see that he had practically the same opening raising range as the tight player.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe" (Albert Einstein)
 
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taipan168
Old 10-01-2009, 05:02 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Forgot to address the title of your post which is whether you should have called for set value.

Your chance of flopping a set when you have a pocket pair is about 7.5 to 1 against, so if that's all you're considering, then provided the chips you can win (those in the pot already plus the remaining stack of your opp) are at least 7.5 times the chips you need to call, you have proper odds to play for set value.

However, there are a couple of other considerations:
- Your opp may not stack off every time you do hit a set.
- You may flop a set but your opp might have a better hand on the flop or outdraw you on the turn or river.

Taking these into account, generally you need to be able to win 10-20x the chips you need to call to have proper implied odds to call a raise for set value. In this case you need to call 720 to win like 4000 which is not even the 7.5 to 1 chance that you need to hit a set.
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fdnypoker
Old 10-09-2009, 10:37 PM #6 (permalink)  
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You played the hand perfect imo. Your read was dead on. You were beat pre flop. I pat my self on the back and don't even look at the table because I know that ten is coming!
It's not how many pots you win, it's what's in them that counts.
 
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TLR
Old 10-10-2009, 03:39 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Good fold preflop, well played


 
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amir is cool
Old 10-10-2009, 10:47 PM #8 (permalink)  
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easy fold... is this a level of some sort or are you just being results oriented


you know a T wouldnt have came if you played the hand right?
http://www.overcards.com/wiki/moin.cgi/FreeYourMind
read ^
Quote:
[21:38] <dranger> WTF HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO BOOT CAMP
[21:40] <kiwiMark> THERE IS A NEW PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES CALLED BARACK OBAMA AND HE'S NOT VERY WHITE
[21:40] <kiwiMark> THIS IS NOT A LEVEL.
 
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Poker Orifice
Old 10-12-2009, 04:57 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Easy fold here preflop (if TightVillain is reraising small like this, you know he's begging for a call or to be shoved over).
If T.V. is not in the hand, I don't flatcall here in SB... I'd be shoving over Maniac's raise.
"SEIBORG"
 
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