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Responding to short stack push on the bubble

  
 
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Alibi
Old 09-30-2005, 03:53 PM     Post subject: Responding to short stack push on the bubble #1 (permalink)  
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He's playing pretty loose, and he could be pushing with a variety of hands. I want to push or fold here; calling is out of the question.

PokerStars Game #2693440652: Tournament #13196370, Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (100/200) - 2005/09/30 - 03:13:07 (ET)
Table '13196370 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 2: HoboJaws (1780 in chips)
Seat 3: WORTHIT99 (8375 in chips)
Seat 6: msen612 (660 in chips)
Seat 9: TokTobbe (2685 in chips)
HoboJaws: posts the ante 25
WORTHIT99: posts the ante 25
msen612: posts the ante 25
TokTobbe: posts the ante 25
HoboJaws: posts small blind 100
WORTHIT99: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to HoboJaws [Qc Kd]
msen612: raises 435 to 635 and is all-in
TokTobbe: folds
HoboJaws: ?
TrapperAB: you know, I really should have named myself after the mandibles of a homeless person
 
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a500lbgorilla
Old 09-30-2005, 03:55 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I'd call, hope big blinds comes along and try to check it down.

-'rilla

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Khabbi
Old 09-30-2005, 04:08 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I think 'rilla's suggestion is right this time.

I'd do the same thing.

Fold to any re-raise by Mr. Big Stack
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dalecooper
Old 09-30-2005, 04:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Agreed. You increase fold equity by pushing but your hand isn't actually that strong, so it really doesn't help you to force the big blind to fold and isolate. It's worth more to you to make the implicit collusion play, inviting the big blind to play, and take the best possible chance at eliminating the short stack. Especially since this slides you into the money if he busts. I'd make the smooth call there all day long.
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gabe
Old 09-30-2005, 09:43 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I'd call, hope big blinds comes along and try to check it down.

-'rilla
what about push? if big blind is smart he might just push with any two if you call.
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JeffreyGB
Old 09-30-2005, 09:51 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I'd call, hope big blinds comes along and try to check it down.

-'rilla
what about push? if big blind is smart he might just push with any two if you call.
How is that a smart play? Getting it heads up against the short stack with any two? You're making it more than likely that the short stack will triple up instead of making it more likely that he'll bust out. Sounds like a mistake to me, not a smart play.

Pushing with KQ here isn't bad. I think you'd be better off following 'rilla's line though.
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dalecooper
Old 09-30-2005, 10:03 PM #7 (permalink)  
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^ What Jeffrey said. Unless big stack has a high pocket pair or is a moron, he won't push. He gains nothing by bluffing you out after you call.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 09-30-2005, 11:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I'd call, hope big blinds comes along and try to check it down.

-'rilla
what about push? if big blind is smart he might just push with any two if you call.
Big blind pushing over with any two is not a smart play.

All he does is move your chips to the other stack and preserve the bubble with a hit to his own $EV OR he busts him and we go to the money just like we would have if he smooth called/checked down.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Staple Gun
Old 10-01-2005, 03:16 AM #9 (permalink)  
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He could push with any pair here assuming you will fold and he has a coinflip for about 2k while only risking 600.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 10-01-2005, 03:21 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Yah, and you're folding to any push.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Rockymv
Old 10-01-2005, 03:46 AM #11 (permalink)  
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With those blinds, that short stack is pushing any two cards there. If I push, BB is only calling with a real big hand, in which case you probably still take third. But most likely he'll just fold. So yeah, I'd just shove in.
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gabe
Old 10-01-2005, 09:07 PM #12 (permalink)  
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JGB/dale/rilla!!!

big blind pushing with any two is a great play, for a few reasons:

-hero has to fold without a monster
-big stack can continue to abuse bubble if he doesnt win showdown to the shortest stack
-he can get awesome pot odds by getting hero to put chips in, then having him fold.

calling and folding to a push sucks. big stack pushing with any two after hero calls is awesome.
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Alibi
Old 10-01-2005, 09:28 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
calling and folding to a push sucks.
I agree, that's why I think it's a push/fold.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 10-01-2005, 09:37 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
JGB/dale/rilla!!!

big blind pushing with any two is a great play, for a few reasons:

-hero has to fold without a monster
-big stack can continue to abuse bubble if he doesnt win showdown to the shortest stack
-he can get awesome pot odds by getting hero to put chips in, then having him fold.

calling and folding to a push sucks. big stack pushing with any two after hero calls is awesome.
This is all assuming that the big stack is 1) a good player who is paying attention. 2) Is capable of abusing the bubble.

Knowing neither of these two things, I'm going to assume he's a fish (becuase there are more of them).

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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gabe
Old 10-01-2005, 09:40 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
JGB/dale/rilla!!!

big blind pushing with any two is a great play, for a few reasons:

-hero has to fold without a monster
-big stack can continue to abuse bubble if he doesnt win showdown to the shortest stack
-he can get awesome pot odds by getting hero to put chips in, then having him fold.

calling and folding to a push sucks. big stack pushing with any two after hero calls is awesome.
This is all assuming that the big stack is 1) a good player who is paying attention. 2) Is capable of abusing the bubble.

Knowing neither of these two things, I'm going to assume he's a fish (becuase there are more of them).

-'rilla
you said 'Big blind pushing over with any two is not a smart play. ' i think it is.
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Alibi
Old 10-01-2005, 09:48 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Yah, and you're folding to any push.
That leaves me crippled at 6xBB and I just pissed away a good amount of my stack. I don't think this is a callable raise.

I can fold and hope Big Stack busts him considering Lil Stack could be pushing any 2; or I could push assuming that my hand > lil stack's hand, and by pushing I am telling Big Stack to get the fuck out my pot.

I'd rather assume that my hand is better than Little Stack's hand than assume that BB will call and check down. Furthermore, if he does call and check down that decreases my chance of winning anything.
TrapperAB: you know, I really should have named myself after the mandibles of a homeless person
 
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gabe
Old 10-02-2005, 09:42 PM #17 (permalink)  
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cmon...........thoughts?
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