A-rag against A-J first hand, Dumb Move?

**Monty3038** · 02-13-2008 12:21 PM

Ok, I'm sure what my coach would say, A-x is a bad move any time you aren't sure of the read of the other player, in the first hand of a SNG last night... this came up... was I nuts?

The Tournament Trimmer (v1.1.4w) was developed by JeffreyGB at http://www.FlopTurnRiver.com.

---Tournament Summary---
$3.30 SNG: Finished 9/9 for $0
Data for 1 hands.
You played 1 hands (100.00%)
You raised 1 times preflop (100.00%)

-----Hand 1-----
Hero's M = 33.33
Full Tilt Poker Game #5233029420: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (39784113), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:05:40 ET - 2008/02/12
Condensed history provided by the Tournament Trimmer (v1.1.4w) from http://www.FlopTurnRiver.com
Seat 1: FritoLay21 (1,500)
Seat 2: AussieR (1,500)
Seat 3: the_lastcard (1,500)
Seat 4: Darrion (1,500)
Seat 5: 1Drunken Fool (1,500)
Seat 6: Kurgmachine (1,500)
Seat 7: not playing (1,500)
Seat 8: OmygodXXX (1,500)
Seat 9: Monty3038 (1,500)
FritoLay21 posts the small blind of 15
AussieR posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #9
Preflop: Monty3038 dealt A J
the_lastcard calls 30
Darrion folds
1Drunken Fool calls 30
Kurgmachine folds
not playing folds
OmygodXXX folds
Monty3038 raises to 120

FritoLay21 folds
AussieR calls 90
the_lastcard calls 90
1Drunken Fool folds
Flop: 9 4 5
AussieR checks
the_lastcard checks
Monty3038 bets 200

AussieR calls 200
the_lastcard folds
Turn: 7
AussieR bets 240

Monty3038 raises to 1,180, and is all in

AussieR calls 940, and is all in
Monty3038 shows A

J

AussieR shows A

7

River: 8
Monty3038 shows Ace Jack high
AussieR shows a pair of Sevens
AussieR wins the pot (3,165) with a pair of Sevens
Monty3038 stands up

Yeah, I still haven't gotten away from being a donk yet I guess... but I think I'd still do it again, maybe change the bets around a bit.

**TLR** · 02-13-2008 12:56 PM

Preflop is OK

On the flop vs 2 opponents I would probably check it, but I dont think cbetting is terrible, however once you got called you have to be very careful

His turn bet is weird, since it is very small relative to the pot, but I still think there is not much you can beat that plays this way, I would probably fold the turn

**Monty3038** · 02-13-2008 01:10 PM

See I felt with the little turn bet, he didn't have anything, so i went for it... and got drawn out on. Ah well, live and learn.

**TLR** · 02-13-2008 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Monty3038

See I felt with the little turn bet, he didn't have anything, so i went for it... and got drawn out on. Ah well, live and learn.

IMO, it is very rare for someone to call preflop, call flop and lead turn OOP unless he improved on the turn

**Monty3038** · 02-13-2008 01:26 PM

Yeah, and sadly I know better.

**DetroitHusling101** · 02-13-2008 05:39 PM

Preflop i just limp behind.
I guess since we have BU it's not that bad , but I'm not big on raising over EP limpers with a hand like AJ.
Fold turn.

**Keilah** · 02-13-2008 07:04 PM

He didn't draw out on you, he had you beat before he made the turn bet.
I don't raise over limpers with AJ in early levels either. You probably have the best ace here but it's best to keep the pot small even if you hit.

**taipan168** · 02-13-2008 08:03 PM

I limp behind too, as played I c-bet the flop too after two checks. I agree with TLR, I am folding the turn.

**bjsaust** · 02-13-2008 08:19 PM

If there were no limpers in front I fold this. With limpers in front I limp behind and only plan to proceed if I hit big. To be honest I dont like any street and the turn is the worst.

**Skeeno** · 02-13-2008 08:52 PM

Hero and Villain both managed to butcher this hand horribly.

AJ is toilet paper . . I have no problem pre-flop although limping may be a smarter move. After both opponents call the pre-flop and check flop I'm wary as it's the kind of flop they may well have connected with and probably check behind and give up the hand their and then. As played fold turn obviously.

**bjsaust** · 02-13-2008 08:55 PM

but I think I'd still do it again, maybe change the bets around a bit.

Please dont.

Also, you mention a coach. Ask them to explain reverse implied odds to you and how they relate to AJ.

**Monty3038** · 02-14-2008 03:25 PM

Yeah, see what makes me a donk?

One thing about the coach, at the $1 and $2 SNG level, I'm still learning to read cards and potential hands... haven't gotten too deep into the odds yet.

02-13-2008 12:21 PM #1
Monty3038 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2008 Posts 1,483 Location Ohio	A-rag against A-J first hand, Dumb Move? Ok, I'm sure what my coach would say, A-x is a bad move any time you aren't sure of the read of the other player, in the first hand of a SNG last night... this came up... was I nuts? The Tournament Trimmer (v1.1.4w) was developed by JeffreyGB at http://www.FlopTurnRiver.com. ---Tournament Summary--- $3.30 SNG: Finished 9/9 for $0 Data for 1 hands. You played 1 hands (100.00%) You raised 1 times preflop (100.00%) -----Hand 1----- Hero's M = 33.33 Full Tilt Poker Game #5233029420: $2 + $0.25 Sit & Go (39784113), Table 1 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 22:05:40 ET - 2008/02/12 Condensed history provided by the Tournament Trimmer (v1.1.4w) from http://www.FlopTurnRiver.com Seat 1: FritoLay21 (1,500) Seat 2: AussieR (1,500) Seat 3: the_lastcard (1,500) Seat 4: Darrion (1,500) Seat 5: 1Drunken Fool (1,500) Seat 6: Kurgmachine (1,500) Seat 7: not playing (1,500) Seat 8: OmygodXXX (1,500) Seat 9: Monty3038 (1,500) FritoLay21 posts the small blind of 15 AussieR posts the big blind of 30 The button is in seat #9 Preflop: Monty3038 dealt A J the_lastcard calls 30 Darrion folds 1Drunken Fool calls 30 Kurgmachine folds not playing folds OmygodXXX folds Monty3038 raises to 120 FritoLay21 folds AussieR calls 90 the_lastcard calls 90 1Drunken Fool folds Flop: 9 4 5 AussieR checks the_lastcard checks Monty3038 bets 200 AussieR calls 200 the_lastcard folds Turn: 7 AussieR bets 240 Monty3038 raises to 1,180, and is all in AussieR calls 940, and is all in Monty3038 shows A J AussieR shows A 7 River: 8 Monty3038 shows Ace Jack high AussieR shows a pair of Sevens AussieR wins the pot (3,165) with a pair of Sevens Monty3038 stands up Yeah, I still haven't gotten away from being a donk yet I guess... but I think I'd still do it again, maybe change the bets around a bit.

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02-13-2008 12:56 PM #2
TLR View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2004 Posts 5,908	Preflop is OK On the flop vs 2 opponents I would probably check it, but I dont think cbetting is terrible, however once you got called you have to be very careful His turn bet is weird, since it is very small relative to the pot, but I still think there is not much you can beat that plays this way, I would probably fold the turn

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02-13-2008 01:10 PM #3
Monty3038 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2008 Posts 1,483 Location Ohio	See I felt with the little turn bet, he didn't have anything, so i went for it... and got drawn out on. Ah well, live and learn.

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02-13-2008 01:18 PM #4
TLR View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Aug 2004 Posts 5,908	Originally Posted by Monty3038 See I felt with the little turn bet, he didn't have anything, so i went for it... and got drawn out on. Ah well, live and learn. IMO, it is very rare for someone to call preflop, call flop and lead turn OOP unless he improved on the turn

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02-13-2008 01:26 PM #5
Monty3038 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2008 Posts 1,483 Location Ohio	Yeah, and sadly I know better.

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A-rag against A-J first hand, Dumb Move?

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A-rag against A-J first hand, Dumb Move?

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02-13-2008 05:39 PM #6
DetroitHusling101 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2007 Posts 1,477 Location Just runnin...	Preflop i just limp behind. I guess since we have BU it's not that bad , but I'm not big on raising over EP limpers with a hand like AJ. Fold turn.
	http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-63115.htm ^^^MY OPERATION^^^
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02-13-2008 07:04 PM #7
Keilah View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Apr 2006 Posts 661 Location Northern BC, Canada	He didn't draw out on you, he had you beat before he made the turn bet. I don't raise over limpers with AJ in early levels either. You probably have the best ace here but it's best to keep the pot small even if you hit.

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02-13-2008 08:03 PM #8
taipan168 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2005 Posts 10,571 Location Sydney	I limp behind too, as played I c-bet the flop too after two checks. I agree with TLR, I am folding the turn.

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02-13-2008 08:19 PM #9
bjsaust View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 6,282 Location Ballarat, Australia	If there were no limpers in front I fold this. With limpers in front I limp behind and only plan to proceed if I hit big. To be honest I dont like any street and the turn is the worst.
	Just dipping my toes back in.
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02-13-2008 08:52 PM #10
Skeeno View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2006 Posts 364 Location Norfolk, UK	Hero and Villain both managed to butcher this hand horribly. AJ is toilet paper . . I have no problem pre-flop although limping may be a smarter move. After both opponents call the pre-flop and check flop I'm wary as it's the kind of flop they may well have connected with and probably check behind and give up the hand their and then. As played fold turn obviously.

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02-13-2008 08:55 PM #11
bjsaust View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date May 2007 Posts 6,282 Location Ballarat, Australia	but I think I'd still do it again, maybe change the bets around a bit. Please dont. Also, you mention a coach. Ask them to explain reverse implied odds to you and how they relate to AJ.
	Just dipping my toes back in.
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02-14-2008 03:25 PM #12
Monty3038 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2008 Posts 1,483 Location Ohio	Yeah, see what makes me a donk? One thing about the coach, at the $1 and $2 SNG level, I'm still learning to read cards and potential hands... haven't gotten too deep into the odds yet.

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