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Alpine021
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11-20-2009, 04:08 PM
Post subject: People that can't play the big stack
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 172
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This is the opposite of the post where some1 mentioned they couldn't push ATC with a massive chip lead.
bubbled 3 or 4 games in the last few days where the massive chip leader played too passively.
For example on one I think blinds were around 200 / 400 and chip leader had around 6.5K in SB and BB has 1200 (might even have been less). He folded. Next 4 or 5 orbits he folded. Now even if he doesn't want to push with nothing he must have woke up with a Q or K surely?
Then short stack got a few double ups I lost my shoves and I was out. Didn't think much of it first time then it happened again and again.
I nearly put in the chat panel "how can you fold?" but just felt it wasn't the right thing to do.
A big stack was pushing me around today and as frustrating as it was to constantly fold my BB with nothing over and over I knew it was the right play by him. I then doubled up through him and he stopped doing it only to start doing it again once I lost a few pots and was short again. Fair play to him.
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Alpine021
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 172
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OK was going to delete this post as re-reading it it just looks like a rant, lol - I guess it is a bit.
I should be more concerned with my own play and I know that - I think I passed up the odd opportunity to try and get back in a few of them.
I'll see what people think though. I think it is wrong to put that in the chat box though isn't it?
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JR9477
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 426
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Shortstack be getting some free rides...is what i might have put in the chatbox.
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(Josh)
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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If the big stack was giving the shortstack a walk then pwning the two middle stacks, then that's good play to keep the bubble alive and accumulate chips. It's actually quite rare that the table is set up such that you can do it, but I've done it on the odd occasion myself.
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Alpine021
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 172
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Im a bit new to forum lingo but what do u mean? Do u mean keeping the short stack short whilst getting chips from medium stacks as they are afraid of bubbling?
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alpine021
Im a bit new to forum lingo but what do u mean? Do u mean keeping the short stack short whilst getting chips from medium stacks as they are afraid of bubbling?
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Yep, exactly. As I said, it doesn't happen all that often that the situation is right to do this but when it does (and you're the big stack) it's so much fun!
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Alpine021
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 172
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I bet. I love being big stack! What are you average stats by the way? As in normally....
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alpine021
I bet. I love being big stack! What are you average stats by the way? As in normally....
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What stats are you referring to? VPIP/PFR? ROI? Aggression factor?
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Alpine021
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 172
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VPIP / PFR....
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Overall stats are 18/14 but it obviously varies dramatically according to blind level:
10/20: 12/5
15/30: 12/5
25/50: 12/7
50/100: 12/10
75/150: 16/14
100/200: 23/20
200/400: 32/27
300/600: 40/32
400/800: 39/32
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RockyMoose
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 196
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tai: wow, I learned something new today, thanks! What a great idea! I know about the importance picking on the middle stacks (from HOH), but specifically keeping the short stack around on the bubble to pick up even more chips = evil genius. Can't wait to be in a position to try it!
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,441
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RockyMoose
tai: wow, I learned something new today, thanks! What a great idea! I know about the importance picking on the middle stacks (from HOH), but specifically keeping the short stack around on the bubble to pick up even more chips = evil genius. Can't wait to be in a position to try it!
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It actually doesn't happen that often that the stack sizes and players are set up such that keeping the short stack alive and pounding on the middle stacks is more +EV than just playing "normally" and pounding on everybody. If the middle stacks are clueless and will incorrectly call your shoves (whether through spite or a mistaken belief that they can call wide it doesn't matter) then you can't use that strategy.
One anecdote that I found really interesting was one from either Johnny Chan or Chau Giang (I can't remember which). The situation was the bubble of a big tourney where 9 paid and there were 10 players left. From what I remember, getting ITM meant a significant amount of money (over $10k).
Chan/Giang had the big stack and the short stack was immediately to his left. Needless to say, he was raising almost every hand preflop and getting folds almost always, however on a few orbits, he open folded to the short stack much to the consternation of the other players. The fourth time he open mucked his hand his cards accidentally flipped and showed KK.
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