this one bugged me

**Mony B** · 02-06-2005 05:32 PM

any thoughts anyone, im still a little baffled by it.
#Game No : 1550557622
***** Hand History for Game 1550557622 *****
NL Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:9327527 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Sunday, February 06, 13:16:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 10894 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 6: megusta ( $1085 )
Seat 10: anchor68 ( $2145 )
Seat 2: jacksback69 ( $2115 )
Seat 5: Goodluck16 ( $2250 )
Seat 1: billyyank ( $1680 )
Seat 8: RiknChips ( $725 )
Trny:9327527 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to megusta [ 9h 9c ]
Goodluck16 folds.
megusta raises [200].
RiknChips folds.
anchor68 calls [200].
billyyank folds.
jacksback69 calls [100].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, 7d, 3d ]
jacksback69 bets [225].
megusta is all-In [885]
anchor68 has been reconnected and has 20 seconds to act.
anchor68 folds.
jacksback69 calls [660].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kd ]
** Dealing River ** [ Ah ]
jacksback69 shows [ 4s, Ad ] a flush, ace high.
megusta shows [ 9h, 9c ] a pair of nines.
megusta finished in sixth place.
jacksback69 wins 2420 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high.
megusta has left the table.
Game #1550561899 starts.

**Penneywize** · 02-06-2005 06:24 PM

Gutshot straight draw + nut flush draw.. What is there to be baffled by.. You weren't even holding a diamond!

I guess you were bluffing and wondering why anyone could call your all-in. Well the simple fact is if you actually DID have the flush, you probably wouldn't just go all-in right off the bat. You might bet the pot or slightly larger if you're afraid of a nut-flush drawer in case you don't hold an A. That type of move you made screams bluff. Yes, you had a pair that was higher than anything on the board, but when the flop comes up all suited, you should know better than to risk all your chips on a hand you know, and quite possibly they know, you don't have.

And with someone betting in front of you on top of all that. Ugh...

So I guess I should stop chewing you out and not mention anything about why the heck you raised PF with 99!!! %@#$%@#$!!!

Hehe just screwing around.. Anyhow.. You know the play you made could have worked in other situations.. I guess the clincher, for me, to fold that hand would have been when Jacksback bet on the flop. You have to think that if he actually had NO diamonds, he would at least check the flop and get more information on your hand.

**Mony B** · 02-06-2005 07:23 PM

i raised preflop cause i had the best hand, dont we all raise when we have the best hand? His bet on the flop told me he didnt have anything either, so i did what i thought i could do when i was a head. He did out draw me and it was a -ev move that irritated me, sorry for posting.

**Yeldud** · 02-06-2005 07:29 PM

I do not see a problem with the pre-flop raise, if anything I would have raised more 4-5x bb. Also, depending on player reads, I may push there for a steal. At worst you are a coinflip against most others.

Your post flop play - once the diamonds hit the board, you have to respectful of the flush. What were your reads on the players?

**Mony B** · 02-06-2005 08:07 PM

The reason why I pushed on the flop is because when this player hits a big hand he never comes out and bets it, since the tourny started i never once saw him bet one of his big hands. So when he came out betting i had him on a weak hand.

**iwa** · 02-06-2005 08:35 PM

Mony, I think you made a good read here post flop, I would have put him on ax or something to that nature, your problem was in the preflop. The raise to 2xBB was not enough try for at least a raise to 4xBB. This guy seems like the will see a flop as long as its cheap. As far as the flop goes, you have to understand, there are people willing to call you if they think they have a good amount of outs. People like to gamble... Overall I think if you would have pushed harder preflop, you would have weeded that limper out. DONT LET THEM SEE A FLOP!

**Mony B** · 02-07-2005 03:10 AM

the more i look at this hand the more i realize i should have raised more preflop, I could not agree with you more. Well ill just have to start betting more.

**JeffreyGB** · 02-07-2005 05:14 AM

Originally Posted by Mony B

the more i look at this hand the more i realize i should have raised more preflop, I could not agree with you more. Well ill just have to start betting more.

Agreed. 99-JJ is a limp or raise hand in my book. If you're raising, make it enough to limit the field.

- Jeffrey

**zenbitz** · 02-07-2005 06:01 AM

Yeah, maybe a bigger raise pushes him out PF, but that's not the play. He could have just as easily had AdJ and made both calls. The issue is that he outstacks you 2:1. He can afford to make a marginal call (even in his own mind) because if he loses, he still has 1000 chips. Eg, if he believes you have the flush, but he's holding the A with 3 on the board, he can afford to make a play.

02-06-2005 05:32 PM #1
Mony B View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 188	this one bugged me any thoughts anyone, im still a little baffled by it. #Game No : 1550557622 *** Hand History for Game 1550557622 * NL Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:9327527 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Sunday, February 06, 13:16:52 EDT 2005 Table Table 10894 (Real Money) Seat 10 is the button Total number of players : 6 Seat 6: megusta ( $1085 ) Seat 10: anchor68 ( $2145 ) Seat 2: jacksback69 ( $2115 ) Seat 5: Goodluck16 ( $2250 ) Seat 1: billyyank ( $1680 ) Seat 8: RiknChips ( $725 ) Trny:9327527 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) Dealing down cards Dealt to megusta [ 9h 9c ] Goodluck16 folds. megusta raises [200]. RiknChips folds. anchor68 calls [200]. billyyank folds. jacksback69 calls [100]. Dealing Flop [ 5d, 7d, 3d ] jacksback69 bets [225]. megusta is all-In [885] anchor68 has been reconnected and has 20 seconds to act. anchor68 folds. jacksback69 calls [660]. Dealing Turn [ Kd ] Dealing River ** [ Ah ] jacksback69 shows [ 4s, Ad ] a flush, ace high. megusta shows [ 9h, 9c ] a pair of nines. megusta finished in sixth place. jacksback69 wins 2420 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high. megusta has left the table. Game #1550561899 starts.

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02-06-2005 06:24 PM #2
Penneywize View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2005 Posts 1,977	Gutshot straight draw + nut flush draw.. What is there to be baffled by.. You weren't even holding a diamond! I guess you were bluffing and wondering why anyone could call your all-in. Well the simple fact is if you actually DID have the flush, you probably wouldn't just go all-in right off the bat. You might bet the pot or slightly larger if you're afraid of a nut-flush drawer in case you don't hold an A. That type of move you made screams bluff. Yes, you had a pair that was higher than anything on the board, but when the flop comes up all suited, you should know better than to risk all your chips on a hand you know, and quite possibly *they* know, you don't have. And with someone betting in front of you on top of all that. Ugh... So I guess I should stop chewing you out and not mention anything about why the heck you raised PF with 99!!! %@#$%@#$!!! Hehe just screwing around.. Anyhow.. You know the play you made could have worked in other situations.. I guess the clincher, for me, to fold that hand would have been when Jacksback bet on the flop. You have to think that if he actually had NO diamonds, he would at least check the flop and get more information on your hand.

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02-06-2005 07:23 PM #3
Mony B View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 188	sorta i raised preflop cause i had the best hand, dont we all raise when we have the best hand? His bet on the flop told me he didnt have anything either, so i did what i thought i could do when i was a head. He did out draw me and it was a -ev move that irritated me, sorry for posting.

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02-06-2005 07:29 PM #4
Yeldud View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 161	I do not see a problem with the pre-flop raise, if anything I would have raised more 4-5x bb. Also, depending on player reads, I may push there for a steal. At worst you are a coinflip against most others. Your post flop play - once the diamonds hit the board, you have to respectful of the flush. What were your reads on the players?
	If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek
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02-06-2005 08:07 PM #5
Mony B View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 188	.. The reason why I pushed on the flop is because when this player hits a big hand he never comes out and bets it, since the tourny started i never once saw him bet one of his big hands. So when he came out betting i had him on a weak hand.

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this one bugged me

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good point

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02-06-2005 08:35 PM #6
iwa View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Nov 2004 Posts 260	Mony, I think you made a good read here post flop, I would have put him on ax or something to that nature, your problem was in the preflop. The raise to 2xBB was not enough try for at least a raise to 4xBB. This guy seems like the will see a flop as long as its cheap. As far as the flop goes, you have to understand, there are people willing to call you if they think they have a good amount of outs. People like to gamble... Overall I think if you would have pushed harder preflop, you would have weeded that limper out. DONT LET THEM SEE A FLOP!

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02-07-2005 03:10 AM #7
Mony B View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 188	good point the more i look at this hand the more i realize i should have raised more preflop, I could not agree with you more. Well ill just have to start betting more.

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02-07-2005 05:14 AM #8
JeffreyGB View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Visit Homepage Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 3,341 Location Jenks, OK	Re: good point Originally Posted by Mony B the more i look at this hand the more i realize i should have raised more preflop, I could not agree with you more. Well ill just have to start betting more. Agreed. 99-JJ is a limp or raise hand in my book. If you're raising, make it enough to limit the field. - Jeffrey
	I run a training site... Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.
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02-07-2005 06:01 AM #9
zenbitz View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2004 Posts 2,859	Yeah, maybe a bigger raise pushes him out PF, but that's not the play. He could have just as easily had AdJ and made both calls. The issue is that he outstacks you 2:1. He can afford to make a marginal call (even in his own mind) because if he loses, he still has 1000 chips. Eg, if he believes you have the flush, but he's holding the A with 3 on the board, he can afford to make a play.

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