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Freeroller

12-31-2008, 06:34 PM Post subject: Matrix Mayhem!!

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Okay I am playing some $1.25 matrix games atm, enjoying them and doin okayish. But here's some hands that i thought would be ermm interesting to post, fav is deffo the quads that smashed the st8 draw that beat the trips! lol

This was def the wierdest matrix game i played, dont have a tracker on this laptop so have had to post the hands from my text HH recolection but still... wtf!!! there were a few more hands like this that i couldn't find and may post later!!!!

SB (t1790)
Hero (BB) (t1455)
UTG (t1205)
UTG+1 (t2995)
MP1 (t1485)
MP2 (t1250)
CO (t1920)
Button (t1400)

Hero's M: 24.25

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, K

1 fold, UTG+1 calls t40, 2 folds, CO calls t40, 1 fold, SB calls t20, Hero raises to t120, UTG+1 calls t80, CO calls t80, SB calls t80

Flop: (t480) 4

, 4

, 5

(4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t240, 2 folds, Hero raises to t1335 (All-In), UTG+1 calls t1095

Turn: (t3150) A

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t3150) J

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t3150

Results:
Hero had A

, K

(two pair, Aces and fours).
UTG+1 had 3

, 2

(straight, five high).
Outcome: UTG+1 won t3150

SB (t1650)
BB (t2635)
UTG (t2950)
MP (t1180)
CO (t2950)
Hero (Button) (t2135)

Hero's M: 17.79

Preflop: Hero is Button with 10

, 10

UTG calls t80, MP raises to t240, 1 fold, Hero calls t240, 2 folds, UTG calls t160

Flop: (t840) J

, K

, 10

(3 players)
UTG checks, MP bets t940 (All-In), Hero raises to t1895 (All-In), 1 fold

Turn: (t2720) Q

(2 players, 2 all-in)

River: (t2720) 10

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: t2720

Results:
Hero had 10

, 10

(four of a kind, tens).
MP had A

, 7

(straight, Ace high).
Outcome: Hero won t2720

Button (t3400)
SB (t8820)
Hero (BB) (t1280)

Hero's M: 4.27

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

Hero raises to t1280 (All-In), 1 fold, SB calls t1080

Flop: (t2560) 3

, 9

, 6

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t2560) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2560) 4

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t2560

Results:
SB had 9

, 9

(full house, nines over fours).
Hero had Q

, Q

(two pair, Queens and fours).
Outcome: SB won t2560

Hero (SB) (t3860)
BB (t6255)
Button (t3385)

Hero's M: 10.72

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q

, K

1 fold, Hero raises to t480, BB raises to t1440, Hero raises to t3860 (All-In), BB calls t2420

Flop: (t7720) J

, 8

, 5

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t7720) 10

(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t7720) 7

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: t7720

Results:
Hero had Q

, K

(high card, King).
BB had 8

, K

(one pair, eights).
Outcome: BB won t7720

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Parasurama

12-31-2008, 08:24 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008

Location: DMT

Posts: 820

What's the point of this being in BC? Shouldn't it be in SNG or maybe Tales of Poker?

01-01-2009, 12:29 AM

#3 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

hand 1 is bad
you're a flip with 32 and villain probably goes broke with 22

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 01:28 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

What's the point of this being in BC? Shouldn't it be in SNG or maybe Tales of Poker?

Apologies if its in an inappropriate section, I'm new here. Pls feel free to move it.

I agree RE hand 1 shoving with Ace high is pretty weak play but at the time i was very sure he would've played it diffierently with a 4 and wasn't expecting a call if he hit the 5. This is a $1 doller sng. If he had overs then fair play to him, I dont really mind going out early on 1 table as then seem to do much better in the remaining ones.

RE the point of thread, there is not real point, just saw some crazy boards in this particular game and wanted to share the variance.

01-01-2009, 01:34 AM

#5 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

if he calls with 32o he calls with a 5

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 01:37 AM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

just stoved this as was interested it the Actual %.

Code:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 990  games     0.005 secs   198,000  games/sec

Board: 4h 4s 5d
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	55.101%  	54.65% 	00.45% 	           541 	        4.50   { AhKd }
Hand 1: 	44.899%  	44.44% 	00.45% 	           440 	        4.50   { 3c2h }


---

0 games     0.005 secs         0 games/sec

Board: 4h 4s 5d
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	-1.#IO%  	-1.#J% 	-1.#J% 	             0 	        0.00   { AhKd }
Hand 1: 	-1.#IO%  	-1.#J% 	-1.#J% 	             0 	        0.00   { Ah3c }


---

 990  games     0.090 secs    11,000  games/sec

Board: 4c 4d 5h
Dead:  

	equity 	win 	tie 	      pots won 	pots tied	
Hand 0: 	55.101%  	54.65% 	00.45% 	           541 	        4.50   { AcKd }
Hand 1: 	44.899%  	44.44% 	00.45% 	           440 	        4.50   { 3s2h }


---

Is this rly a flip?

chrisa

01-01-2009, 08:19 AM

#7 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 86

Hand 1 you didn't play too well in my opinion. I tend not to bluff much in the earlier stages of a tournament. Too many players and too many possibilities of a hand out there.

Hand 2: Congrats!

Hand 3: You're about 80% chance to win but there's still a 20% chance you'll lose. It happens.

01-01-2009, 09:29 AM

#8 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

45-55 is still a flip

and that's like the best you can hope for when you shove there
imagine you waited until you hit top pair against this guy, he would call you with a really wide range and you'd be 70-30

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 03:36 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

okay thats fair enuff, we only get a worse % when we increase his range anyway which moves us closer to your flip.

At what % do we consider things to not be a flip =greater then 60 / 40? Just out of interest.

With regards to playing hand 1 poorly, yes i agree but i am happy to factor in the edge that i gain in the other 3 matrix games if he calls and wins, happy to steal a small pot there and then and look like i am stealing to ensure future shoves get paid of and accumlate more points when we are in better spots at the later stages!

sil693

01-01-2009, 04:16 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: Birmingham, UK

Posts: 609

if you play 4 at a time and cant fully concentrate on all 4 - and see busting out of one making a vast difference to how you play the remaining 3, you shouldnt be playing 4 at once in the first place.

HarleyGuy13

01-01-2009, 10:09 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Oregon

Posts: 1,226

Freeroller sounds like you got a hard time with this post but don't let that discourage you. There is a lot to be learned from FTR and the guys/gals will be str8 with you. May I suggest you not post results of the hands. There really isn't much to learn when you do and it is more like story telling than trying to learn and better youself and others. You'll find much more helpful reponses w/o the results posted.
Good luck and Grind Your Ass Off!

"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 10:15 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by sil693

In return I think its fair to say I wont be playing three .25 cents sngs just because i can concentrate better on the opponents playing 3 tables as aposed to 4.

At this level I am content utilising my image whatever it may be.

Once I have better understanding of what works best in these games and at each of the levels i'm sure you wont be seeing any more hands like this from me.

Regards,

Freeroller

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 10:19 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyGuy13

Thanks very much Harley, appreciate the advice. Originally posted in the wrong part of the forum, still working my way round here.

Included the results as I wanted to see what sort of ocntribution a player can get on FTR + & -!!! guess I got it, lols

Stacks

01-01-2009, 10:21 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,588

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeroller

At this level I am content utilising my image whatever it may be.

How can you use your image if villains aren't thinking about what you have?

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 10:30 PM

#15 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

6th hand of the game, I shove AK on a 445 flop, 1 caller wins with 32o.

Better players may notice this and act appropriately?

Nit at work; "I'll only grind what the grinders wont grind"

HarleyGuy13

01-01-2009, 10:36 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Oregon

Posts: 1,226

Why shove AK? 6th hand means you've got a lot of better opportunities ahead of you when you have a made hand! You're way better off this early into the game to just sit and pay attention to the other players and get a feeling for who's who etc. Only play monsters early on and you can't really go wrong. If you sit on your hands for the first half you can watch half the players go broke doing exactly what you did. Be patient my friend and good things will come..PROFITZZ

Stacks

01-01-2009, 10:44 PM

#17 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2008

Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.

Posts: 2,588

Villain here is obviously making this play not because of what he thinks you have, but because of what he has, and that's an oesd. In order to use your image you need villains to be thinking about your hand. They are not at this level.

It is because of this you should always attempt to make the most +ev play with each decision. Not a decision with less ev, in the hopes of gaining future ev from image.

tpb221

01-01-2009, 10:52 PM

#18 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2008

Posts: 69

Just a suggestion, but why don't you just play $1.00 sng then the matrix. I think the payout stucture in these games suck, and you will do better playing 3 or 4 sng then these.

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 10:54 PM

#19 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Thanks for the sound advice. Absolutley agree with everything you've said.

A little experimenting never hurts tho! I just happened to go tweaking in a game where some mad boards were showing up.... ruining the variance credibility that the matrix games have for us fish!

There's some real KO hoes at this level as well as your nits, I was just interested to see what it was like to appear to be a "KO hoe" in a Martix game! Subsequently sharing the variance and getting violated by FTR regs, lols!

bigspenda73

01-01-2009, 10:55 PM

#20 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,515

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

{from BC}

Freeroller

01-01-2009, 11:10 PM

#21 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by tpb221

Just a suggestion, but why don't you just play $1.00 sng then the matrix. I think the payout stucture in these games suck, and you will do better playing 3 or 4 sng then these.

tbh I am quite content with the matrix games, I love the fact that there's no readily available waterproof SnG strategy that you'll see 60% of the player pool enforcing.

Its quite an envigorating feeling to play them and know I have to develope my own strategy and can't just go and read someone elses, even if I wanted to the material on them is very poor and not very creative imo.

The rake is dog bags, u cud say I am daft to be playing $1 at 0.25 rake instead of $2 games at the same rake but I am interested sheerly from a strategy perspective, and looking to move up at specific intervals to identify differences in the standard of play, doubtful from $1 to $2 but I may come across some grinders which will be insightful!

dont forget if you get 4 1st place finishes you get your 5 payouts + additional 1 of an equivalent sum which if you capable of achieving is better then a usual SNG.

Nakamura

01-02-2009, 01:36 PM

#22 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Grindin'

Posts: 1,510

Nakamura is an unknown quantity at this point

Here's my 2 cents ....

Hand 1 is not so good. I tend to leave these flops. UTG+1 is showing strength by betting out of position on the flop. Give him credit for a good hand and fold. Generally he is only showing a 4, 5, overpair or a draw. At best you are flipping and at worst you are significantly behind.

Hand 2 is leaky IMO. You are investing more than 10% of your stack and not getting set odds (although this isn't purely a set mining hand). Sure this time you flopped a set, but most times there are going to be overcards on the board that will put you in a difficult position. Depending on my read of a player here, I would probably shove this or fold to a tight player.

Hand 3 is good.

Hand 4 I tend to let go. I still figure I have plenty of chips and I know opp isn't folding here. Maybe it's a bit weak and I'm surpised to see opp making a move with K8 (I would expect him to have a much stronger holding here). I suppose if you have a read a player is playing as loose this this comes an insta-reraise AI.

Freeroller

01-02-2009, 05:00 PM

#23 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Thanks Nakamura. Definately worth more then 2 cents imo.

this is a pretty vague question and open to anyone. I probably have to give a lot more info re the standings, etc, but would any of you factor in that we are playing in a Matrix game when it comes to analysing these hands? If I gave more information would your analysis differ, not just on these specific hands but all MTX hand analysis threads in general.

Nit at work; "I'll only grind what the grinders wont grind"

Xo_Sirk_oX

01-02-2009, 06:10 PM

#24 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 96

When I play matrix - I have 3 games as small as possible on the right of my screen and the last board located next to the very bottom (Picture a backwards L ) and the tourney window with the Projected Points and current stats in the upper left. I am always looking when I am going HH or Looking to Call if that will effect someone that is higher ranked them me or not. When the blinds start blinding people in and they are all in I have noticed the majority will limp and check it down. You get the occational ass who doesn have Nuts (but that is any Tournament table isn't)

Nakamura

01-03-2009, 12:08 AM

#25 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2008

Location: Grindin'

Posts: 1,510

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeroller

If I gave more information would your analysis differ, not just on these specific hands but all MTX hand analysis threads in general.

This is a factor in calculating whether or not to call or move all-in against a player in the matrix format. You particularly don't want to clash with players around you in the standing table (with marginal hands).

You would have to calculate your expected point value if you fold and your expected point value if you call (although this would have to include some estimate of how many points you would earn if you fold or call and win).

Rather than try do this calculation (coz it makes my head hurt), I just tend to avoid confrontation against players I want to top in the standings (unless of course I have a premium hand).

Mr Bigcity

01-04-2009, 12:03 AM

#26 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: Auburn

Posts: 122

I would suggest not playing the 1 + .25 matrix, but instead 1 dollar tourneys due to the very high rake fee for such a small buy in.

Freeroller

01-04-2009, 04:27 AM

#27 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nakamura

I just tend to avoid confrontation against players I want to top in the standings (unless of course I have a premium hand).

I have mixed feelings about this and still trying to determine the strongest approach, currently I am of the mindset that winninng 1 game without a KO (outside of headsup) results in a total of 12 points*, 48 respectively for all 4 games. So theorectically avoiding confrontation and playing a weak tight/tag game is the way to go(at $1 level), clocking up 4 points for 2 scalps on the way is a lovely perk with the nuts when you gets it. There are nits who are playing like this and you also have "KO hoes" who are playing solely for scalps and dont understand survival points.

Generally I am playing for survival in all 4 games up until a certain point (where i start playing for the win) and if I identify a threat who is still in all 4 games I would rather get into confrontation with them sooner rather then later, ideally prior to my "certain point", so they cannot obtain the extra survival points that could hinder our desired standings.

* 1 point for surviving 7 players, 1 point for surviving headsup, 2 points for headsup KO, 2 poinst for the win.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bigcity

I would suggest not playing the 1 + .25 matrix, but instead 1 dollar tourneys due to the very high rake fee for such a small buy in.

tbh not concerned about the rake

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