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slownpainful
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06-06-2008, 10:36 PM
Post subject: Learning how to incorporate ICM into my play, a bit confused
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 37
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So I'm just starting out trying to figure out how to make money grinding sit'n'go tables. So far I've been playing at the $2.00 + .20 micro limit tables and actually doing fairly well (it seems no one knows even basic poker skills at this level.) I know that to boost my game more I need to be able to incorporate when to push when it gets to bubble play but I'm a bit confused how to learn how to make those calculations. I understand the basic theory of it, and realize those calculations are probably impossible on the fly, but how do I work on learning those situations? Is it just a matter of reviewing hand after hand after hand through sit'n'go wiz? Sorry for the newbieish post, but any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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CoccoBill
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Finding my game
Posts: 423
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Yes.
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"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty."
-Plato
"God has a lot to answer for when standing before me in the last judgment."
-E.Valtaoja
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taipan168
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,436
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The other way to learn is to post hands/tourneys here and we'll take a look.
When you're running hands through SNG Wiz, do not just blindly accept the default ranges! You should modify opp's raising/calling ranges according to your reads on them.
I usually do the following when reviewing hands in SNG Wiz:
- Play with opps' calling ranges to see when a shove/call becomes +EV or -EV (there are some shoves/calls that are always +EV or -EV)
- If a shove is -EV, what cards would be +EV to shove in that spot?
- If your stack was bigger/smaller, what does that do?
- If you were in a different position, what does that do?
- If the short stack was much shorter, would an +EV shove still be +EV?
By doing this, you can get a good feel in-game for when a shove is likely to be +EV or -EV.
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RML604
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Straight
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 166
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When I first got SnGWiz I didn't understand what I was supposed to do. Every time I answered a quiz question incorrectly, I would look at it and say "Ok, but how the hell would I have known that ahead of time?" The truth is you just have to study the hands and study the situations.
Make sure you review your tournaments afterwards, check out not only your incorrect plays but also your correct plays, and make sure you check out the graph and see how the situation changes based on your opponent's range.
Also, when reviewing your tournaments, make sure you adjust the ranges if necessary. Don't always rely on the default ranges SnGWiz gives you, as a small change in range can be the difference between a push and a fold.
Like I was told, the bad news is that it's not easy to get good at. The good news is that if it was, everyone would be good at it.
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slownpainful
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 37
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Thank you very much, it makes me feel much better to know that the way to do it is to just review hand after hand rather than there being some 'secret' method that everyone but me knows about. I'm going to play around with quiz mode on the wiz more and hopefully start figuring this crucial skill out. Thanks for the advice!
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Kosh
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 14
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Sorry to bump such an old post, but I figured it would be better than starting a whole new thread on the same subject.
I just picked up SnGWIZ and I've been using it to go back and look at my old tourneys. I know that figuring out the hand range of the opps is very important, but being a new player I'm not sure how much of a variance to put their calling ranges at right now.
I'm playing $1 SnGs on both Stars and FT, so I know at the lowest level possible my opps have to be much looser than average. Going through these old tourneys I can't really remember any tendencies on these opps, should I just change their ranges to loose by changing the model from average?
Also, when I installed the program there was a new feature that sent information from your tourneys back to SnGWIZ in order to keep up to date on the models. Does anyone know if their models take into account the different levels of buy ins for SnGs?
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