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Implied Odds In Action, Right Play?

  
 
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daluchy
Old 06-30-2005, 05:01 AM     Post subject: Implied Odds In Action, Right Play? #1 (permalink)  
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It's probably the first time I ever made such a call early in a SnG.

The SB was a loose aggressive, almost maniacal. Anytime he bet some strange number to make his chip stack bet look larger was when he either had nothing or had something that he didn't want you to call. He'd try and bluff you out the whole hand. I figured I had my straight draw outs, flush draw outs, hell even top pair outs.

If I hit anything, I'd double up on him. Would you have played the hand the same?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter

SB (t2711)
BB (t2166)
UTG (t344)
MP1 (t4940)
MP2 (t464)
CO (t1445)
Hero (t1430)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, 7.
4 folds, Hero calls t50, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t150) 6, 2, 5 (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets t77, Hero calls t77, SB folds.

Turn: (t304) 5 (2 players)
BB bets t333, Hero calls t333.
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vqc
Old 06-30-2005, 06:20 AM #2 (permalink)  
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calling the flop bet is fine, its not that many chips and if you hit you get paid off.

However! Another option could be reraising the flop to about 200. THe problem I see here is that you are not thinking ahead far enough. You need to take into consideration what happens when you DONT hit your hand. IN this case you didnt hit ur hand on the turn but you still called the 333 bet. Why? If you are going to commit the chips to see the river, I think that your best play would be to reraise the flop bet to about 200 and play from there. This could potentially get a free card on the river.

You raise his bet to 200 on the flop.
He checks the turn, you check behind, and see the river for free.

Just thinking outloud, anyone care to tell me if this wiuld be a bad play?
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andr3w321
Old 06-30-2005, 06:53 AM #3 (permalink)  
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What vqchuang said is a good way to play the hand. Pre-flop I probably would have raised to go for a blind steal but limping is fine too. If you don't want to raise the flop and commit too many chips, I would have folded on the turn bet. The pot is like 304 after the flop and he overbets the pot. More than likely you are behind in the hand since I assume he has at least a pair and 333 chips is a lot to commit to a draw. Using this calculator, http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_odds...be92c2830c6cb# I assumed he had something like K6o. After the turn you had about 45% chance of winning the hand.
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daluchy
Old 06-30-2005, 07:03 AM #4 (permalink)  
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It was only 25/50 so I didn't want to blind steal at that time. I'll limp a suited connector early in a SnG until the blinds are worth stealing.

Yeah I wasn't planning what to do from the turn on when I called the flop bet. I just saw a small bet and was happy I could get to my draws for a cheap price. I just wanted to see another card.

Re-raising the flop would of been a good idea. Atleast I'd be in control of the hand and maybe get a free card or a fold on the flop. I'll definately do that next time.

I wanted to call the cheap flop bet. When the diamond hit and opened up my outs dramatically, I didn't mind the expensive turn call. The turn wasn't good pot odds to call I know that. I was just figuring if I do hit, I'm getting doubled up. If I don't, well I'd still have around 1000 and be in good shape.

I'll post the results later after a little more analysis.
pulling a courtiebee pŏŏl-ĭng ā kôrt-ē-bē (verb phrase):
1. overvaluing mid pocket pairs
2. knowing you should fold, but donkishly calling or raising anyway
 
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drmcboy
Old 06-30-2005, 02:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 re raise the flop. If you can't pull the trigger here, stop playing connectors. That's about the best flop you can get.

AI or fold on the turn... if he's loose I'd lean towards folding, but your read is confusing - when he bets big he either has something or nothing? If you've seen him lay down after putting in a big bet I'd prefer the AI, if he is the type that is calling you here with TP it's time to lay it down.
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daluchy
Old 06-30-2005, 02:24 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I mean he either has nothing or something low like bottom pair.
pulling a courtiebee pŏŏl-ĭng ā kôrt-ē-bē (verb phrase):
1. overvaluing mid pocket pairs
2. knowing you should fold, but donkishly calling or raising anyway
 
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ihategnomes
Old 06-30-2005, 05:03 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Limping Impied odd hands in LP is better than stealing the blinds with them, as you gain a lot more chips in the long run with one hit. If the blinds were bigger, I wouldnt mind a raise preflop.
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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drmcboy
Old 06-30-2005, 05:28 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 if he has nothing, your implied odds are 0, so you can't call (obviously AI is good here).... unless you think maybe he'll bluff again on the river? I can't see it. If you really think he has a deuce, AI is clearly the play. but if he could have been betting middle pair, he made a set and is not going to fold to your AI. You do have decent odds there since he doesn't seem like the type to lay down a set... still I think I'm folding. You don't know which outs are good, either. If you hit an 8 or 7 do you win, or is he in there with 99? Could he have a bigger flush draw? If so a ton of your outs are tainted.
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Toasty
Old 06-30-2005, 07:21 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I hate the limp pre flop I think its the worst decision you can make with folding being your best move and raising second.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
 
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ihategnomes
Old 06-30-2005, 07:41 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Why? Is this your approach on small to middle pocket pairs as well?
Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
 
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daluchy
Old 07-01-2005, 03:49 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Ok I thought about this one for a bit. My approach early in a tourney (below 75/150 BB) is weak tight. I'll fold most hands, but I'll limp pocket pairs small-medium any position and suited connectors late position.

The reason for no raising at anytime in this hand is because of my weak tight image. I'll rather just call bets if I'm chasing something.

Later on I'm alot more TAg. If this occured later I'd be blind stealing pre-flop and semi-bluff raising the flop.

I had him on a top/middle/low pair the whole hand. That is why I believed my top pair out was good too and didn't mind just being a calling station.
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drmcboy
Old 07-01-2005, 01:28 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 weak tight is not a strategy you're looking to implement.

You keep saying middle pair, but middle pair made trips, so I guess you're saying top or bottom pair... if you really put him on one of those two, why not move in? He's folding a deuce and maybe folding the 6, but if not you're almost even money. Now you've given yourself a chance to win this pot, regardless of the river. And don't forget he may have nothing. And honesty, if the 7 comes and he puts you AI, are you really going to call?

Calling down is not the way to beat a bluffer, re raising is.
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Toasty
Old 07-02-2005, 02:18 PM #13 (permalink)  
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The reason i hate it is because its an open limp from the button.
Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
 
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