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clavio
Old 03-11-2010, 05:34 AM     Post subject: I suck, please help #1 (permalink)  
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clavio
I just played the first mftops event and got overrun by better players after all the AFKs died


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 400/800 Blinds 100 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t31195)
BB (t27082)
UTG (t34169)
Hero (UTG+1) (t14038)
MP1 (t21086)
MP2 (t40734)
MP3 (t25344)
CO (t27558)
Button (t24530)

Hero's M: 6.68

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J, 10
1 fold, Hero bets t2000, 1 fold, MP2 calls t2000, 5 folds

Flop: (t6100) 4, A, A (2 players)
Hero bets t4000, MP2 raises to t18100, Hero folds

Total pot: t14100



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 400/800 Blinds 100 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 (t41713)
MP2 (t29532)
MP3 (t30469)
Hero (CO) (t19188)
Button (t8818)
SB (t37034)
BB (t26944)
UTG (t31558)
UTG+1 (t20480)

Hero's M: 9.14

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, A
1 fold, UTG+1 bets t1750, 3 folds, Hero calls t1750, 3 folds

Flop: (t5600) 6, 2, J (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t3000, UTG+1 raises to t18630 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t11600



Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 50 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 (t6170)
MP1 (t32376)
MP2 (t33360)
Hero (MP3) (t12212)
CO (t8443)
Button (t9513)
SB (t24508)
BB (t26258)
UTG (t3564)

Hero's M: 11.63

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5, 5
4 folds, Hero bets t1000, 2 folds, SB calls t800, BB calls t600

Flop: (t3450) 4, 3, 7 (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t2000, 1 fold, BB raises to t25208 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t7450


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 120/240 Blinds 25 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t1487)
BB (t12917)
UTG (t3160)
UTG+1 (t22250)
MP1 (t9190)
Hero (MP2) (t5000)
MP3 (t11082)
CO (t4010)
Button (t7991)

Hero's M: 8.55

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A, K
3 folds, Hero bets t621, MP3 calls t621, 4 folds

Flop: (t1827) 6, 10, 5 (2 players)
Hero bets t1111, MP3 calls t1111

Turn: (t4049) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets t9325 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t4049
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fjuanl
Old 03-11-2010, 06:22 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 - Flop sizing too big [edit]. Your stack is short enough to where you want to be cbetting 1/2 pot or less with both Ax and JTs. You should also be prepared to check/fold this flop against certain players. Some people only have mid-high pocket pairs and Ax in their flatting range vs your stack, so nothing is folding to a cbet

Hand 2 - Not folding. A lot of people do this with AK/AQ, TT/99, or worse Jx that they were EP stealing with

Hand 3 and 4 seem okay, nothing you can do
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Penneywize
Old 03-11-2010, 06:54 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Agree with fjuanl completely on hands 2-4

Hand 1, I dont think we should be opening UTG+1 with JTs, obv reads or at least VPIP/PFR on players of interest (blinds, button esp) would be helpful... Anyhow 2.5xBB kind of weird and awkward stack size makes this seem so avoidable

We're basically folding to any raise pf, on a great deal of flops we're faced with cbet/fold which is meh... so what half our stack now on an un-good hand PF and an overly optimistic cbet on flop?

As played I'm checking flop - as fjuanl said, villain's range is lots of Ax and pairs that either have us crushed or won't necessarily believe a cbet anyway

I'm having a hard time grasping his argument for larger flop bet (did you mean this fjuanl? you then went on to say 1/2 pot size) maybe he can elaborate

I had thought that (blanket statement inc) cbets on paired flops don't usually get proper credit, being that flopped trips would want to slowplay to maximize value, and on top of this AAx hits villain range pf call range
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Im_new
Old 03-11-2010, 12:50 PM #4 (permalink)  
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They've already given the practical advice.

I'm wondering why you think these players are better than you.
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drmcboy
Old 03-11-2010, 04:28 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 did not read others, sorry if repeats

1) bet less on flop, fine from there

2) call shove, if not fold pre

3) stove a range, I think you are priced in. if it is close, either bet more on the flop so it's an easy call (and hopefully increase FE) or bet less so you can fold.

4) Depends on read but I'd shove turn a lot



""I suck please help""

the good news is step 1 is easy - get stats and get reads.

step 2 is relax. Running bad isn't just about losing flips and being 2 outed, it's also people having the top of their range and/or good hands to semi bluff when you have nothing on the flop.
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drmcboy
Old 03-11-2010, 04:37 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 ok read replies, I'm sure juan meant bet less on flop, he's dyslexic that way and is way too good to pot here.

re JTs I open almost 100% if the time there, maybe I fold if mlagoo is the BU. But given content of OP folding is probably better, just play nice and tight OOP until you get some confidence going.
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drmcboy
Old 03-11-2010, 05:06 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 more on 3)

I think even if you bet less, b/f is still a bad line. if we check flop, you get to draw free and you can maybe catch a scare card on the turn.
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fjuanl
Old 03-11-2010, 05:12 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 lol yeah just to clarify I meant to say cbet smaller on hand 1. You could also decrease your raise size pre. Making it 2.25x allows you to make cheaper blind steals, cheaper cbets. And for the most part players don't react any differently to it.

Hand 4 -

Shoving on this turn seems okay as long as you think villain is calling flop with a lot of stuff (22-44, A6, A5, 76s, AJ-AQ). You can get away with shoving Q and J turns, but this seems marginal. Villain has a big enough stack to where he's fine if he wants to make hero calls with 77 and 88. And because the fields are so weak in the miniFTOPs, he's probably going to herocall
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drmcboy
Old 03-11-2010, 05:37 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 yeah he probably won't fold 77/88 but I think he'll fold a lot of draws that have good equity/bluff spots and 6x and stuff. Also I think he'll almost never have Tx plus, have to be more hands he's folding than calling with. And we have some equity when he has the PP or weird JT and are sometimes ahead of a draw when he calls so I don't even think it needs to work 50%.
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clavio
Old 03-17-2010, 07:10 AM #10 (permalink)  
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clavio
Thanks for the advice everyone. Seriously.

As far as why I think these players are better than me? When my opponents did these things, in particular the pocket fives hand I basically had no idea what they could possibly be holding. In general I was not used to my cbet getting check raised like that.

I took 4th in a $11 mtt on full tilt. Pretty happy about that.

Heres a hand that happened in a tournament Im still in. Villain had been sitting there for 12 hands and had yet to see a flop:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, 2.2 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB (t5238)
UTG (t8865)
Hero (UTG+1) (t10345)
MP1 (t14940)
MP2 (t5660)
MP3 (t35295)
CO (t5460)
Button (t12900)
SB (t15310)

Hero's M: 34.48

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K, Q
UTG calls t200, Hero bets t800, MP1 calls t800, 5 folds, BB calls t600, UTG calls t600

Flop: (t3300) 6, Q, 9 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets t2000, MP1 calls t2000, 2 folds

Turn: (t7300) A (2 players)
Hero bets t3000, MP1 calls t3000

River: (t13300) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t9140 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t13300
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drmcboy
Old 03-17-2010, 03:31 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 re KQ: I'd fold pre, I usually do not open KQo from here & with the UTG limper I def just give it up.

As played the turn bet over reps your hand, he's almost never calling with worse because you're supposed to have Ax. If he's drawing he's going to call this bet anyway and you'll be lost on river. I would c/f turn. If he checks back, you might call a bet on the river hoping he missed.

re the 55 hand - he can have 7x, any PP including the sets (probably not 99+), or combo draw like 75.
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clavio
Old 03-17-2010, 06:31 PM #12 (permalink)  
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clavio
Are you folding preflop there mostly because its in early position? Where are you normally playing hands like KQ?


Is this a reasonable thing to do in a mtt?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 15/30 Blinds (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (t3694)
BB (t5962)
UTG+1 (t4220)
MP1 (t2945)
MP2 (t2717)
MP3 (t2830)
Hero (CO) (t2660)
Button (t2910)

Hero's M: 59.11

Preflop: Hero is CO with 10, 10
UTG+1 bets t60, 3 folds, Hero raises to t240, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to t765, Hero raises to t2660 (All-In)
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Kijjo
Old 03-20-2010, 08:32 AM #13 (permalink)  
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I think my eyes started to bleed a little when I read hand #2 in the original post.
It's ok, I'll go get the Visine.
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drmcboy
Old 03-22-2010, 02:29 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 yes, because you are EP. Probably MP1 depending on table for KQ.

at the TT hand, probably just take a flop, but as played fold to the 3 bet with no read, this is AK, JJ+ from a random too often.
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clavio
Old 03-29-2010, 02:32 AM #15 (permalink)  
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clavio
Sketchy sketchy top pair hand. Villain had been at the table about 2 hands before this one.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 250/500 Blinds 50 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) (t49641)
Button (t50628)
SB (t12468)
BB (t24910)
UTG (t10115)
UTG+1 (t9320)
MP1 (t8725)
MP2 (t70196)
MP3 (t79850)

Hero's M: 41.37

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, Q
5 folds, Hero bets t1250, 2 folds, BB calls t750

Flop: (t3200) 4, 4, 9 (2 players)
BB bets t3200,
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fjuanl
Old 03-29-2010, 04:20 AM #16 (permalink)  
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 easy call ^^

with 50bb effective stacks you don't really want all the money going on in this flop. id expect to good a lot but your better off bluffcatching. id also call on almost every turn card even if he pots it again
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Horace
Old 03-31-2010, 05:43 AM #17 (permalink)  
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with that little BB's, you need to call that. Could try raise to make it interesting?
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clavio
Old 03-31-2010, 11:03 AM #18 (permalink)  
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clavio
The problem with raising is he will only call with hands that have me beaten. If he is in fact full of it he might bet some more into me on the next street.


Ive seen this guy for 11 hands he hasn't done anything strange:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 200/400 Blinds 50 Ante (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 (t29161)
MP2 (t37700)
CO (t5162)
Button (t2700)
Hero (SB) (t7435)
BB (t7790)
UTG (t27281)
UTG+1 (t14760)

Hero's M: 7.43

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, J
3 folds, MP2 calls t400, 2 folds, Hero bets t1200, 1 fold, MP2 calls t800

Flop: (t3200) 7, 8, 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets t400
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fjuanl
Old 04-01-2010, 02:44 AM #19 (permalink)  
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 the KJs hand:

your preflop sizing creates a really awkward spot when you get called. you could shove preflop but i feel like doing the go-n-go allows people to make worse mistakes...like calling to see if they like the flop. raise 1/3rd of your stack (~2400) and shove all flops. ez game

you could also complete preflop if you thought the limper was tight
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Penneywize
Old 04-01-2010, 04:52 AM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjuanl View Post
the KJs hand:

your preflop sizing creates a really awkward spot when you get called. you could shove preflop but i feel like doing the go-n-go allows people to make worse mistakes...like calling to see if they like the flop. raise 1/3rd of your stack (~2400) and shove all flops. ez game

you could also complete preflop if you thought the limper was tight
for the uninitiated: go-n'-go is to raise from the blinds, get called, then push when first to act on flop?

also - about completing the blind preflop - the reason we'd do this if we felt the limper was tight is because A: if we miss and check, he's less likely to bet his air and B: if we pick up overs or a flush draw, he's more likely to fold to our bet, correct?
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revolvingiris
Old 04-01-2010, 11:10 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clavio View Post
Sketchy sketchy top pair hand. Villain had been at the table about 2 hands before this one.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 250/500 Blinds 50 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (CO) (t49641)
Button (t50628)
SB (t12468)
BB (t24910)
UTG (t10115)
UTG+1 (t9320)
MP1 (t8725)
MP2 (t70196)
MP3 (t79850)

Hero's M: 41.37

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, Q
5 folds, Hero bets t1250, 2 folds, BB calls t750

Flop: (t3200) 4, 4, 9 (2 players)
BB bets t3200,
I'm shoving over on this flop. There are a lot of cards that will hit the turn that you wont like. If villain shows up with an over pair then they played it horribly and just say "nh".
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Qminator
Old 04-08-2010, 07:02 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 400/800 Blinds 100 Ante (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 (t41713)
MP2 (t29532)
MP3 (t30469)
Hero (CO) (t19188)
Button (t8818)
SB (t37034)
BB (t26944)
UTG (t31558)
UTG+1 (t20480)

Hero's M: 9.14

Preflop: Hero is CO with J, A
1 fold, UTG+1 bets t1750, 3 folds, Hero calls t1750, 3 folds

Flop: (t5600) 6, 2, J (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t3000, UTG+1 raises to t18630 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: t11600

Can't we just ship it pre or is this too spewy? Depends on reads of UTG+1 and the players yet to act oc.
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