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pgil
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06-29-2005, 09:20 PM
Post subject: How big of an edge do you need?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I play at Pokerstars 5.50 either the 18 or 27 person SnG's. It is usually pretty easy to put some players on a weak ace. When you do this, and are holding a better ace, is this a big enough margin to raise/push over the top of them?? I only ask because I've been doing this and the results have not been there, so I was just wondering if I am pushing too thin of a margin, or if it's just a bad run. Thanks.
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aleksandr
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 305
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I'd really only reraise that situation if I had AQ or AK. If you have an uber read on the guy that says you have him beat, then I guess slowplay.
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Operation Learn to Read
Reads: 7 posted
Money: $31
SNGs: 0
MTTs: 0
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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Yes, but 3 things can happen.
a.) They fold the losing ace part of the time.
b.) They call you with a better hand.
c.) They call with the lower ace.
a.) You lose value when the A hits, a lot of players playing weak aces will call down on an Ace high board.
b.) Enough said, reads are not perfect.
c.) Part of the time they call, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes you split.
Sounds like a bad spot for your money. Depending on the situation, stack sizes and blinds alter the play, but your generally still in a losing proposition long term.
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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ilikeaces86
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,141
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Yes reraise.. Fish call over and over again with Ax lower kicker and u are a 3:1 favorite.... sounds like a good spot for your money to me. I know I would get my money in the pot in that type of siuation.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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If the question is do I want to move if I have Ax and I feel opp has A-lower-x, the answer is yes, yes, yes.
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Staresy
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06-30-2005, 02:28 PM
Post subject: Re: How big of an edge do you need?
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#6 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Following the Herd to 6-Max Land
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
When you do this, and are holding a better ace, is this a big enough margin to raise/push over the top of them??
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3:1 is big enough in my book.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
I only ask because I've been doing this and the results have not been there
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They will come, over time. Simple laws of probability say that, over the course of time and a large enough sample size, if u are a 3:1 favourite, you will win 3 times out of 4.
I also agree with what has been written before about going with your reads and re-raising with AK for definite and maybe other Ace-Face combinations if u genuinely believe you're ahead.
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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3:1 Assuming you are right everytime. If you are right everytime sure, but are you? How do you deduct a raise meaning a weak ace. I think if you put the person on a wider range of hands, then the situation changes. But ilikeaces is better than me so listen to him. Also you never mention what Ace you had and what range you thought they had.
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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If I am putting someone on a weak ace, it's usually in the A4-A9 range, rarely is it as high as AT. This is only with certain players obviously, but after watching someone play A5 and A6 vs. AT+ its pretty easy to tell the difference between the two with the type of player I am talking about. I would usually move over the top with AJ or better.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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Bad Beaten
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 197
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Please don't talk aces. I lost my last tourney by smooth calling a loose player's raise with ATo, flop comes T42, 2 diamonds and a club...I make a small bet, get raise all-in, and call...He shows ATs and hits two clubs for the perfect-perfect flush.
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nomofoshobro
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: HOG HEAVEN
Posts: 130
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bad Beaten
Please don't talk aces. I lost my last tourney by smooth calling a loose player's raise with ATo, flop comes T42, 2 diamonds and a club...I make a small bet, get raise all-in, and call...He shows ATs and hits two clubs for the perfect-perfect flush.
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why don't you post this over in the bad beat section? if you can explain how this is helping pgil make better decisions in his next SNG, then i will stfu.
obviously, my post isn't doing him alot of good either, but i just couldn't help myself. this kind of post is useless.
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vqc
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,427
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watch it boys.
how do either of your posts add to the discussion? they dont. So dont post.
Thread will be locked if all that proceeds after this is more pointless banter.
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Bad Beaten
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 197
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People don't actually understand the gap concept at this level. Sure, my KJo is good enoug to raise from the cut off if it's folded to me, but at the $5 level, you have no business thinking that your post-flop play is good enough to call a generous raise with your A3o...lol
Case in point: First hand, fish re-raises a min-raise all-in with QQ. Fish #2 calls with ATo...WTF is wrong with these people? lol...At least it wasn't 27 this time..hahaha
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nomofoshobro
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: HOG HEAVEN
Posts: 130
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by vqchuang
how do either of your posts add to the discussion? they dont. So dont post.
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lock the thread? why? with all due respect, what is wrong with my opinion here? i read time and again people suggesting that posts aren't appropriate and that maybe they should be posted somewhere else. i wasn't insulting bad beaten and i don't think he took it the wrong way. i even posted that if it actually does help, then i will STFU and then bad beaten actually came back and added something useful. i will STFU now.
no hard feelings fellas.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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The new sherrif in town is just playing with his guns 
pgil if they have a weaker ace you are a huge favourite to win, Pokerstove says AJo vs A2s is about a 68% favourite to win (if he has an unsuited ace you are almost an 73% favourite). So it all depends on how accurate your read is. Also you have to be very careful of pushing over the top if there are still players left to act behind you.
Why do you have to push? If you put him on a weaker ace just see the flop with him and take it from there, if your postflop play is good enough you might even be able to get away from your hand the times his hand is winning. You have folding equity with the push, but I believe you can make up for that with post flop play. If the blinds are high then by all means push, else I would suggest just playing the hand normally using your read to help you make decisions.
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dodgerfan29
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: california
Posts: 119
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i agree..unless the blinds are huge, don't push. play it strong post flop and maximize your chips there. also, if you get called preflop and get sucked out, ur done. if they come over the top after the turn chances are they hit 2 pair and you can lay it down and take their stack next time the situation comes up.
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