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Mony B
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08-09-2004, 08:22 PM
Post subject: Doyal Brunson overkill
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 192
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i was reading super system the other day and if you have ever read this book it almost tells you to go all in on every hand. So i thought i would give it a try since he swears by it. When the SnG first starts ill wait to get one big hand and fold the rest, when i get like KK i raise 1/3 my stack and usually get one to two callers, on the flop if there is an over card i check it if not im all in. This my sound like a stupid plan but i usually still get an all in caller even if he didnt hit just to keep me honest. Then from there on i will do the same till it is down to maybe 5-6 people. I noticed that i am usually the chip leader by this point since i either win or im gone. By this time i have taken out around 3 people so i can raise and bluff all i want and no one will call me unless they can contest. I just wanted to see what everyone thoughts where on this sort of stratagy.
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Fnord
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08-09-2004, 08:27 PM
Post subject: Re: Doyal Brunson overkill
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#2 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mony B
i was reading super system the other day and if you have ever read this book it almost tells you to go all in on every hand.
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We didn't read the same book.
I'm soooo happy there are people like you. It's proof that great poker books will be more often than not misinterpreted and ignored.
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Humphrind
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08-09-2004, 08:37 PM
Post subject: Re: Doyal Brunson overkill
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#3 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
We didn't read the same book.
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Shhhh, it's the "special" Super System that I give to everyone I play against.
Don't tell him any different!
Mony B: Doesn't it seem like Doyle's style he is advocating seems a little obvious? If you play a couple of orbits against a smart crowd, they should be able to pick up on what you are doing and use it against you to take you out quick.
Doyle loves being aggressive. He definatly says to bet big with good cards, but he has a lot more to say. Read that section again.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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Mony B
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 192
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this isnt my set instone tourny style, if you read the book, not the SPECIAL verson, he states on serveral occasions that you must put someone to a choice for all there chips and more often then not they will either make a mistake from the pressure or they will muck. I dont get why "people like me" cant take this to an extreme and play around every now and then. Sorry for trying out different things, and i guess i must have been playing with morons since 7 out of 10 times i placed in the bubble.
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KewlKatt
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 90
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Never read SS, but for the all-in strat, I only use that in the rebuy phase of tourney, or short stacked looking to double up late in the game.
Try that in ring games, and your likely to run face first into someone holding trips or 4 card flushes more often then getting someone to call with a lower pair.
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Fnord
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08-09-2004, 08:54 PM
Post subject: Re: ok?
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#6 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mony B
i guess i must have been playing with morons since 7 out of 10 times i placed in the bubble.
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Most intelligent thing said so far in this thread...
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Xianti
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08-09-2004, 08:58 PM
Post subject: Re: ok?
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#7 (permalink)
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mony B
guess i must have been playing with morons since 7 out of 10 times i placed in the bubble.
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"Bubble" means just outside the money. So, using this system, you've made no money 7 out of 10 times?
What do you mean?
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Mony B
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08-09-2004, 09:11 PM
Post subject: i dont get it
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#8 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 192
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why is this such a bad thing to everyone, there have been way worse things done during tournys so, i wasnt writting this to say this is a killer stratagy i was just doing it for a conversation topic to write. Sorry 7 out of 10 times i placed in the money, i dont get why i have offended you all and am catching so much heat.
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allLiving
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 799
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the bubble mean the top 3? I've heard people use it like this, but I might be wrong...
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PocketFives - allLiving
Pokerstars - [595-ESCAPE]
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Xianti
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08-09-2004, 09:23 PM
Post subject: Re: i dont get it
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#10 (permalink)
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mony B
why is this such a bad thing to everyone, there have been way worse things done during tournys so, i wasnt writting this to say this is a killer stratagy i was just doing it for a conversation topic to write.
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I think the reaction is mainly because you cited Super/System and misinterpreted what Brunson advises (I haven't read it myself), or at least over-simplified it.
This is also ground that was just recently covered in a couple of topics. Here's one of the more in-depth ones which speaks of Sklansky's modifications of this "all-in or fold" tactic you mention:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=1701
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by allLiving
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the bubble mean the top 3? I've heard people use it like this, but I might be wrong...
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Xianti is right. The bubble is just outside of the money. If the top 3 pays, in a SnG, than when you are at 4 ppl everyone is "In the bubble" If the top 150 pays, then you are "in the bubble" when it gets down to about 170-ish.
I've never finished in the bubble in a MTT until last Sat. $4 R&A turbo (I told you I hate R&As  ) The top 220 won a place into a $40 R&A. I placed 227 and was so mad!!! I was so close but got blinded out at the last minute.
Mony B: This all in strategy is sometimes effective. It's definatly something you want in your overall strategy. However, people who rely on this are called "move-in specialist" this style is a slight variation of "monkey poker" It takes very little skill, and for those of us who play real poker, it makes us angry. I don't want to get busted by a "monkey"
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by allLiving
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the bubble mean the top 3? I've heard people use it like this, but I might be wrong...
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http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...es/?a_id=13474
But the classic definition, of course, is ending up one shy of the payout list.
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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I think the problem you have is that when DB mentions he puts his opponent at a decision for all his chips is this.
The stacks are equal or DB has more, he bets big and the opp knows if they call, on the turn or the river he will have them put all there chips in to see SD.
So when he bets, they know its a decision for all there chips or not at all. He didnt mean he was pushing all in every time. Hope this makes sense, i.e. you raise 25k of your 50k stack the other dude know you are going to be pushing the rest, if he goes all in he risks all his chips if he is right you only have half of yours in and can fold.
He does explain this in greater detail.
BTW Welcome to FTR :P
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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Xianti
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: facebook.com/xianti
Posts: 5,289
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Yes. Greetings, Mony B.
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08-10-2004, 05:59 AM
Post subject: Re: Doyal Brunson overkill
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#15 (permalink)
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{This post has been removed}
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Mony B
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 192
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thank you all for the greetings. Toasty, i didnt know that many people have used this method before. Monkeys? lol, i have read the book and i didnt mean to misdirect the message Doyal is trying make with the making a move for someones chips, i was just seeing what would happen if someone took it to an extreme. O well it was short lived and now can move onto the next thing.
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Toasty
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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That was actually Humprhind who wrote that...
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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