curious....

Originally Posted by Staresy

Last night I am UTG (or maybe UTG+1) and got dealt KJo. I decided to call (100).

Mistake. If you do this hand UTG, you should raise it. That makes you the one stealing. If he reraises it's a tough laydown. If you absolutely must see the flop, you'll have a better idea that he's got an overpair.

One of the advantages of playing aggressively is that you learn more about opp's hand from their reaction to a bet than you do from just calling them.

This sounds off-topic and all, but isn't. All these bits of information -- whether you consciously process them or not -- are contributing to what you call the "feel" or instinct.

Esp. in B&M poker. 70% of communication is non-verbal (body language). When you are the aggressor, you'll either start detecting microscopic "squirming" when people really don't want to call you, or this sort of rigidness when people have hot cards and are tensing up for battle.

This stuff, in my opinion, is more valuable than a list of "tells".

Lefou nailed it...in this situation you misplayed K-J out of position, but what got me was this:

cut a long story short, I am all-in, he flips QQ.

There was a lot of decision making in there post flop that you are leaving out which would tell us what you were thinking/hoping for. BB bet you raise everyone folds...then what happens....how did you get all your chips in the middle whe your opponent was showing such strength....what made you not believe him?

After you gain experience you start to trust your initial reaction or assesment of a situation....because you have seen how many time you were correct -or- you have seen how many times you out-guessed yourself. Spend a little time this week really paying attention to the players at your table...observe how they are playing and jot down what you think they are holding. Track how many times you are right or at least very close....that will develop your reading skills and indirectly develop your intuition as well.

sorry Dav.

Basically, I know what I did wrong and am too ashamed to share it!! Still, live and learn.

Essentially though, the point I was getting at was to do with "feel"/"instinct" (call it what u will). My thought process when the cards were being dealt simply went "hmmm, KJ ......... oh crap, I am acting very early, just lay it down" when, all of a sudden, evil Staresy in all-red, cape, pitch-fork and horns appears on my shoulder and told me to call.

I am the first to admit that I need to learn more, including discipline. I was more annoyed with myself for calling in the first place.

Not meaning to be arsey or dismissive. I appreciate the advice. I will certainly be coming for more help in the future because I want to become a better player and am convinced the peeps on this site (including yourself!) will help me do that.

As a side-note, I played a few SnGs last night and paid a lot more attention to what was going on. Don't get me wrong, I wasn't just ignoring everything before now, but rather than just "watching" I was studying. I wasn't always right, but, in a few hands I wasn't involved in, I pegged a few hands that others were playing absolutely right, whereas those where I didn't, I figured I got something out of it too.

I pegged a few hands that others were playing absolutely right, whereas those where I didn't, I figured I got something out of it too.

I am glad it is working for you. I am always a little leery of giving such specific advice, people learn and develop in different ways...there is not a single right way to play this game. How I learn is constant practice and repetition...I can learn by reading, but I learn far more by doing. Writing down reads on people really worked for me. I also used to do the same thing with calculating outs and pot odds. Just jot it down whether I was folding or not and practice calculating what bets I could call if i were still in the hand. After a bit of practice it becomes almost automatic....and I'm not very good at math. Good luck!

yeah. Re: the pot-odds business, I have found it quite useful to knock up a quick equasion on Excel and just have that open. Therefore, when I am in hands where it is going to be more of a stats/odds decision, I can quickly type in (a) the money in the pot, even the potential, (b) the amount it is going to cost to call and (c) the number of outs I think I have and then, whammo ...... Excel tells u whether it is profitable or not! (problem is u have to be quite quick when u are typing away)

Like I say, I think one flaw in my game that I really need to sort out is getting too emotionally involved in a hand or refusing to accept I'm beat at times and maybe overplaying things like TPTK. It is not all the time, just certain situations.

"About 4 more people limped in when the BB raises to 500"

So that makes 5 or 6 of you including BB seeing the flop, in this circumstance BB is surely expecting that at least one of you is going to call the raise, he isn't going to try and steal a pot of 5 limpers?

Maybe I've got that totally wrong - please tell me if I have - I am a sponge, for knowledge

Feel is a strong aspect to this game, the best poker players, have the best feel. As for your play, thats instant fold, every time with KJ UTG, reason being is that why would you want to put all your marbles in a 5 way pot, with the BB raising large when you have a mediocre hand, you don't, the more you let go of KJ AT, ect in this position the better your results will come. Don't be ashamed of your play, humility is a key aspect of improving your game, you have to suck it up and fix it somehow, why not let people help that can, we don't make a habbit of laughing people off the forums if they make a mistake, I don't think we'd start with you .

If he posted the part of the hand that he is ashamed of it's probably to avoid the "you f*cking moron, why did you do that" replies that are common here. Most of the post are helpful but 30% of the replies are people that have never made a bad play degrading you.

Originally Posted by r8ed

If he posted the part of the hand that he is ashamed of it's probably to avoid the "you f*cking moron, why did you do that" replies that are common here. Most of the post are helpful but 30% of the replies are people that have never made a bad play degrading you.

Huh!?.....what are you referring to? I have never seen a "you f*cking moron, why did you do that" reply here. I have seen poor plays criticized, but I have not seen a personal attack as a result of a bad play....let alone a "common" occurance here.

I have. It's mostly just a couple people but they all come out if you post a really bad play. Doesn't matter, just a reason somebody might withold the full story. From experience, I know to ignore such comments and focus on the real advice.

now, now boys!! No need to bicker over my crappy play!!!!

I appreciate the offer of advice and, where I am unsure of what I did right/wrong, I will be more than happy to post it here and get some advice.

However, the reason I don't want to do so here is because I know full well what I did wrong. Namely,

1. playing the hand in such an early position in the first place and
2. falling in love w/TPGK

I had about 4 opportunities to lay this down but played it all the same. Harsh lesson to learn, but worth it all the same.

I never call a big preflop raise with a dominatable hand. Your better off going in with 89s than you are KJo in this position. You don't want to be in a situation where your looking for the face that breaks you, when a J comes up and you have KJ vs someone's AJ. Better off folding.