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Darby
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12-30-2004, 03:14 AM
Post subject: AK Early in a tournament
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 209
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This was a live tournament, we just play $10 buy in, you get 10 bucks in chips. So we have 10 people for this tournament, and I am at 8.25 during only the second blind level which is .20/.40. So I am fine, having only played about 2 hands. I get AK of spades and make a standard 3x raise to 1.60 to go. Another player goes all in and to call would only leave me with .10 so its close enough to all I have. Now, we play together often so I was absolutely sure I was not up against AA, KK. I also didnt think this guy would make this move with a low pair. I thought he could be on tilt because of getting outdrawn 2 hands previous. I narrowed it down to A-K or A-Q or QQ. Eventually I called, he showed A-Q. He flopped a Q and took me out. Now, I know the odds, but with the read that I had should I make this call if I am almost certain he has A-Q? Is it worth it? Im like a 75% favorite, but is it worth it to risk it all preflop as a 3-1 favorite? It just seems to me that if you KNOW he has A-Q I dont htink you can fold, but to risk your whole tournament as a 3-1 favorite seems risky.
How would the tournament pros here play this?
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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If you can put him on an AQ with certainty call all day.
3:1 is much better than a coinflip... There is always risk in poker, getting your chips in when you have the better of it is what makes you money
- sed
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allLiving
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 799
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If it's Paradise poker, call, you'll get the King on the river. 
But in all honesty, if I had this read and knew what my opponent had I'd call this every time and twice on sunday. This doubles you up and puts you in good position to win the tourney or get in the money.
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Yeldud
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 149
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Why get involved with AK for an AI this early in a tournament? The early stages of tournaments are about survival. Early on, I would not call an AI without at least AA, KK, even QQ is questionable this early. Yes, you had the odds, but I do not like risking my tournament life this early with AK.
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If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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It's just a question of what is the most important to you: the chance at 3:1 to double up, or preventing any possibility of going out early. I'd do it every time if I knew he was on AQ. Particularly if he was at all a decent player, and taking him out was going to help me win the tournament.
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Sed
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Wastin' away again in margaritaville....
Posts: 1,102
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Yeldud
Why get involved with AK for an AI this early in a tournament? The early stages of tournaments are about survival. Early on, I would not call an AI without at least AA, KK, even QQ is questionable this early. Yes, you had the odds, but I do not like risking my tournament life this early with AK.
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I agree for the times where you cannot put the guy on a definite hand. It sounds like the poster knew exactly what his opponent had based on his play. I disagree that the early stages of what is essentially a SnG are about survival. I believe that to maximize your chances to win you have to take control of the table when you have the chance. Make everyone else play scared. By calling this down (with the AQ read), you will win 3/4 times, you give yourself a table image of someone not to be screwed with, and quickly take control of the table. You have more to gain than simply doubling chips here, you set up the table to give you the tourney win if you play it right. You probably won't get much better odds to double up in a tourney.
- sed
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Yeldud
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 149
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Quote:
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I disagree that the early stages of what is essentially a SnG are about survival.
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I misunderstood the first post, I did not realize that the tournament total was 10 people, I thought it was a reference to the table. I agree, a single table tournament, you need to take control ASAP. I still do not like the call in this spot. Of course, I feel that AK is one of the most over valued hands in holdem. I know that I will get a lot of disagreement on this, but my win % with AK is HORRIBLE. I actaully win more with JJ. Anyway, IMO it was still too early to call an AI without holding AA or KK.
Table image only does you anygood if you are still at the table to play.
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If you put all your faith in the river, you are up shit's creek
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Against most holdings like pocket pair you were a coin flip and a little behind so fold, if you think you can outplay the competition and still have a healthy stack.
AK is great if you were the first one to get all the chips in and put the pressure on him, or in a short stack situation. AK is not the hand you want to call AI preflop in most cases.
Not a horrible call overall. Just part of the game. How many times have you made a difficult fold in that situation only to get your AA cracked in an hour.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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Darby
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 209
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thanks for the advice...
i know the odds, and i know to usually lay AK down early in a tournament, but I was pretty confident I had him in a dominated position with him holding a weaker ace...
oh well
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zenbitz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,911
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The main reason I don't like this call is that it's a live game. You can't just jump into the next tourney on-line.
Also - you were NOT sure he had AQ. You said AK/AQ/QQ. AK is a push, QQ is a coinflip, and AQ you dominate 3:1. Plus you said that he wouldn't have pushed with a lower pocker (presumably would have slow played KK/AA). You can could really tell QQ from TT? JJ? AJ? I realize you know the guy pretty well, but to quote Miller's Crossing "No body knows anybody... not that well".
Still, it the scheme of things, it was a good call since you had him dominated.
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Brodie
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 95
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I'm no tournament pro, but all you can do is put your money out there when the indications are that you are a favorite. I asked a similar question about AA (obviously a much better hand, but it still applies) early in a tournament that got a lot of responses and I learned a lot from that thread.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...821&highlight=
Sklansky says that contrary to what a lot of people say, poker is gambling. I think the inference there is that sometimes you do need to gamble if you want a chance at great success. You have to be willing to die if you want to live, as they say.
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Brodie
"The present success is the hundred failures of the past."
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