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AK early, raise/call ahead. comments pls

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  1. #1

    Default AK early, raise/call ahead. comments pls

    Obv v early so no reads. Is the 3bet good and do you fold after the action ahead?

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6.00+$0.50 Tournament, 10/20 Blinds (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

    MP1 (t1480)
    MP2 (t1480)
    MP3 (t1420)
    CO (t1470)
    Hero (Button) (t1470)
    SB (t1940)
    BB (t660)
    UTG (t2480)
    UTG+1 (t1100)

    Hero's M: 49.00

    Preflop: Hero is Button with K, A
    1 fold, UTG+1 raises to t100, 2 folds, MP3 calls t100, 1 fold, Hero raises to t420, 2 folds, UTG+1 raises to t1100 (All-In), MP3 raises to t1420 (All-In), Hero folds
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  2. #2
    i think calling (since you have position, esp. if you're suited) and shoving are better than raise-folding.

    As played, the pot odds are huge and I'm probably calling in a SnG, but this is not the kind of action you want to see with AK. You probably have around 20% equity or less in this pot (most likely holdings for villains are one pp and one hand with at least one of your outs).
    Playing big pots at small stakes.
  3. #3
    That's tough. Putting almost 1/3 of your stack in and then folding. I have tended to fold in these situations when I have no reads, whatsoever, but that might be a leak. I find that depending on the players these two ranges can be all over the place. Sometimes I fold, and see the players flip over ATs and 66, or TT and 33, or QJs and AQo, or something like that. So, while normally I'd expect to see at least one hand JJ+, AKs, and the other hand TT+ and AJs+, AQ+... there just seem to be so many players who can't get away from a hand they've already invested in when a pots been built. So if I have any reads that either player has been all-in early on with marginal hands, I'm probably calling and hoping to triple up.
  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib
    i think calling (since you have position, esp. if you're suited) and shoving are better than raise-folding.

    As played, the pot odds are huge and I'm probably calling in a SnG, but this is not the kind of action you want to see with AK. You probably have around 20% equity or less in this pot (most likely holdings for villains are one pp and one hand with at least one of your outs).
    we don't have 5:1
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  5. #5
    I agree with baudib, with position I would probably just flat and see if we can spike an A or K on the flop before getting more chips in.

    If you want to 3-bet, I would 3-bet a little less to say 350 so if one or both of them flat and you don't hit an A or K, you lose a few less chips. As played, I really hate 3-bet/folding but with all that action in front I think you have to. The problem is that I don't think there are enough hands you dominate in their ranges (eg. AJ/AQ) to give you the equity you need here despite big pot odds, plus there's the ICM effect that means you need another 2-3% over plain chip equity.
  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by gingerwizard
    Quote Originally Posted by baudib
    i think calling (since you have position, esp. if you're suited) and shoving are better than raise-folding.

    As played, the pot odds are huge and I'm probably calling in a SnG, but this is not the kind of action you want to see with AK. You probably have around 20% equity or less in this pot (most likely holdings for villains are one pp and one hand with at least one of your outs).
    we don't have 5:1
    Don't understand; I'm guessing you have less than 20% equity.
  7. #7
    equity win tie pots won pots tied
    Hand 0: 38.911% 33.92% 04.99% 4820635596 709421414.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }
    Hand 1: 38.911% 33.92% 04.99% 4820635596 709421414.00 { TT+, AKs, AKo }
    Hand 2: 22.178% 14.58% 07.59% 2072523744 1079339708.00 { AKo }
  8. #8
    I'm guessing in a sit +go early the ranges are a lot looser. But say 99+ AK,AQs and your at 28% w/AK. Early on in position w/AK I think flat calling and seeing a flop cheap is good. I don't like to get too many chips in a pot where I only got ace high. Also I will miss 2/3 of the pots out there. But after 1/3 of my chips go in w/2 other players in There's no way I fold AK.
  9. #9
    Seems flatting AK early is something I'm not doing enough
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  10. #10
    I guess the real problem with 3-betting after raise and a cold-call with these stacks is the size you have to 3 bet is a lot of your stack. Where if your just 3-betting one raiser, you can raise less and get away from the hand if you need to (like a 4-bet behind and call up front). Plus if you end up only against 1 who shoves, u are likely either flipping, have the same hand, or dominating AQ.

    Looking over my histories I think I do better raising early limpers light on CO and Button, then I do 3-betting early raisers. I think flatting is right here, because you'll have position and can stack off a weaker Ace on the rare chance that the A's. Without specific reads, It might be better to save three betting over a cold caller when you are on the button and the players raising and flatting are middle and or late instead of early, where their ranges include more fold-able hands.
  11. #11
    I think I'd fold here and take notes on them. You lose your 420, but you're left in a tournament with at least a read on someone which is better than we have going into a lot of tourneys. Plus, I'm comfortable playing back from a 1080 stack early.

    Even if you have one of them dominated, there's a really good chance at least one of them has a pp and then the one you're dominating has one of your potential outs. You're getting a little better than 3:1, but you're equity is a bit lower than that.
  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by gingerwizard
    Seems flatting AK early is something I'm not doing enough
    In Rizen/PearlJam/xxx I can't remember's book they flat with AK and JJ much more than I usually do, I have also been looking for more spots to do it. They usually are early with double stacks so it's a little different, but they are also of course in MTTs where you would think they would be more willing to gamble. so probably in an SNG it should be play you make a lot.

    re OP fold seems OK as played, I think gambling is OK too since it could easily be TT+ from MP plus something really dumb from UTG

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