Poker Forum

Over 1,232,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Tournament Poker

  > 

$3 sng PartyPoker, KTs against shortstack

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
vaaanha
Old 02-07-2010, 03:38 PM     Post subject: $3 sng PartyPoker, KTs against shortstack #1 (permalink)  
High Card

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9
vaaanha
Hi guys. I'm not sure if I'm counting ICM correctly. But in this situation - would you shove or fold?

Party Poker $3 USD Buy-in No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t100/t200 Blinds - 4 players -
Hero ( BTN ): t1400 M = 4.67
blade_235 ( SB ): t11270 M = 37.57
OnkelHasi ( BB ): t1110 M = 3.70
molodalen ( CO ): t6220 M = 20.73

Pre Flop: (t0) Hero is BTN with KdTd
1 fold, Hero bets t1400 all in, 1 fold, OnkelHasi calls t910 all in

Flop: (t1820) 9hTsQs(2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: (t1820) As(2 players - 2 are all in)

River: (t1820) Jc(2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: t1820

Hero shows KdTd(a straight, Ten to Ace)

OnkelHasi shows Kh8s (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Hero wins t290
OnkelHasi wins t1160
Hero wins t670
(Rake: t-300)

So is here shove correct? If I fold now & also deepstack on my left hand, shortstack can easy shove me next round & after that I'll be the worst on the table.

I give him(shortstack) calling range 66+ a AJo+, KQ - is it OK?

Against his range I'm 36/63 underdog

So here comes the math...

He holds calling hand in 8% of time.

Pf(0,92)*Ef(1,02) = 0,94$
---
Pcl(0,08)*Ecl(0,17)*0,63 = 0,02$
Pcw(0,08)*Ecw(1,57)*0,36 = 0,05$
=========
1,01$

My equity before action is 0,84$. I don't take into account calling by that deepstack. I think he can call maybe QQ+. He's no interested in throwing his stack away.

I shoved....

& was called by K8...(55/45)

So if I take K8 as least possible hand to call - he holds calling hand in 20,6% of situations. Then...

Pf(0,794)*(1,02) = 0,81$
---
Pcl(0,206)*(0,17)*0,55= 0,02$
Pcw(0,206)*(1,57)*0,45=0,15$

========
0,98$

I'm not really sure with my math. Logically I suppose that it's (for me) more profitable being called by smaller range of hands because it happens less often - but it looks it's lil different.

Am I counting that ICM right? Let me know.
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
taipan168
Old 02-07-2010, 08:37 PM #2 (permalink)  
Administrator
Administrator

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,436
taipan168 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to taipan168
Hi and welcome to FTR, it's good to have you here.

I'll check the ICM maths later, but without even looking at it I strongly suspect your shove is correct.
Reply With Quote
taipan168
Old 02-08-2010, 06:55 AM #3 (permalink)  
Administrator
Administrator

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,436
taipan168 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to taipan168
Interesting, I ran this in SNG Wiz and it actually doesn't matter how wide or loose the short stack in the BB calls, it's all about the SB's calling range (since if the SB calls, the BB would be crazy to call without a monster hand).

SB needs to call no looser than 18% of hands (33+, A5o, A7o+, A2s+, KQo, KTs+) to make this a good shove.
Reply With Quote
vaaanha
Old 02-08-2010, 12:06 PM #4 (permalink)  
High Card

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9
vaaanha
Yep. I also used SNGwiz & it showed me an exclamation mark next to this hand. But I thought that range of SB is pretty tight - he's now in very safe position & if he call for example A8o, he can be very easily dominated. I thought he can call only QQ+ & maybe AKs in this situation.

So the result is that it's pretty unimportant what shortstack's range is? What only matters is the SB's calling range?
Reply With Quote
fulksy
Old 02-08-2010, 08:44 PM #5 (permalink)  
fulksy's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Edmonton,Canada
Posts: 1,018
fulksy will become famous soon enough
Send a message via Skype™ to fulksy
Quote:
I thought he can call only QQ+ & maybe AKs in this situation.
i think its important to remember that at $3 sngs, what opponents should call with and what they will call with is very very different, most players at these stakes are very bad and have no clue about ICM or what EV is. so make sure you take that into account when your trying to figure out opponents range.
Reply With Quote
taipan168
Old 02-08-2010, 11:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
Administrator
Administrator

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sydney
Posts: 10,436
taipan168 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via MSN to taipan168
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulksy
Quote:
I thought he can call only QQ+ & maybe AKs in this situation.
i think its important to remember that at $3 sngs, what opponents should call with and what they will call with is very very different, most players at these stakes are very bad and have no clue about ICM or what EV is. so make sure you take that into account when your trying to figure out opponents range.
The other thing to remember is that SB has a huge stack, so he can afford to call you, lose and still be the biggest stack by a long way. QQ+, AKs is WAY too tight a range for SB. If I had to take a guess I would say that the 18% range that I posted above is probably about right if not a little tight. This is why I was surprised what a marginal spot this was since in a game I would probably shove this pretty fast.
Reply With Quote
TLR
Old 02-09-2010, 02:32 PM #7 (permalink)  
TLR's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,994
TLR is an unknown quantity at this point
 I dont think the push is bad here


 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 02-11-2012, 09:04 PM    Tennessee worries that Online Poker could reduce State Lottery revenues
There are a number of officials in Tennessee who believe that legalized online poker would cut into their state lottery revenues, much of which goes towards education programs. Shirley Raines, Preside ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:36 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.