$30,000 Tourney and AKs

**Rondavu** · 04-11-2005 04:59 PM

So I was in a $30,000 tourney. It was down to the last 4 tables, 35 people left. I had about 22,000 chips which was about 5,000 above average stack. I get AK suited. A small stack 7,000 goes all in. I call the 7,000 in SB expecting a showdown and then BB goes over the top of me all in with his 24,000 chips. I call and get eliminated. He had 10 10 and caught a set. No aces or kings popped.

I think this was a huge lesson. Only risk your whole stack with AK when your hurting. I just couldn't stand losing 7,000 chips I already committed by laying down. I got sucked in. I know you'll all tell me I was stupid to call, but I play to win the whole tourney. This hand would have popped me up to 52,000 or so chips and the chip lead. I would have been the favorite going forth to win $7,000. What do ya say about this situation? Would the matador have called? Personally I think it was ballzy of him to go all in with 10's when either one of us could have had a higher pair. Nice move on his part I guess.

**Pyroxene** · 04-11-2005 05:08 PM

Here is a suggestion, I am sure there are a zillion different view points on this.

Like you said, it was an aggressive move for him to go in with 10s.

When you are in the SB, outstacked by the BB and you are calling a significant All-In, if:
a) you feel you will call if the BB pushes All-In after you
AND
b) you would rather not have the BB enter the pot

then consider pushing All-In yourself when the action comes to you. It may not have made a difference in this case but it might have made him reconsider his tens. He could be thinking you are pulling a Rippy where you are calling a small stack All-In with a garbage hand, hoping to hit something. Going All-In first sends a stronger message.

Just my 2 cents.

**drmcboy** · 04-11-2005 05:20 PM

^^^ agree if you were going to call the AI, might as well go AI. Only reason to call not raise here is if you're going to fold to more aggresion.

**Rondavu** · 04-11-2005 07:08 PM

I thought of that too after the fact. My all in may have scared him off his tens. Turns out they both had me beat, but at least I would have only lost 7,000 chips. I kinda feel he would have called anyway with the tens. It seems to me when you have a high number pair like that you make up your mind before acting and when the other guy went all in he instantly decided to pounce. I just wish he was acting before me. I would have folded for sure.

**aleksandr** · 04-14-2005 10:34 PM

Man, you were probably like 35% or something to have an awesome shot at $7k; you have AK, and he could just as easily be pushing with AQ thinking you're raggy trying to get the elim. Call that EVERY time.

**lovemachine** · 04-15-2005 01:09 AM

you should also base the decision on the level of the blinds. lets say the blinds are 2k/4k and you have 22k chips, i would definately move over the top with AK and only about 5x the big blind. but if the blinds are only 400/800, i'd say its an ok decision to just call the all-in then to fold to the over the top raise. although also, if the blinds are only 400/800, an all-in would be nearly 10x his stack which means you could also just make a case for laying it down preflop.

**gabe** · 04-15-2005 02:29 AM

you must reraise hoping for the BB to fold. go allin.

**Fortune 500** · 04-15-2005 04:07 PM

Look at it mathematically... You're calling off 1/3 of your stack, leaving you with 15 K, 14 K in the pot. If the BB comes over top of you, there'll be basically 36,000 in the pot. (The original raisers 7k, Your 7k, 7k for the BB to call, and 15 K for him to reraise you in). You're looking at 15k to win 36k, or roughly 2.5 to 1 on your money with a premium hand. Unless you think you're up against AA or KK, you more or less have to call. If you're going to potentially be forced to make this play, Go All in Yourself. You may still have ended up in the same position, but you at least put the pressure on the BB and make him consider throwing it away. I know if I had a huge stack, two all ins, and only pocket tens... I would consider a laydown here.

Just my thoughts.

**Element187** · 04-15-2005 07:18 PM

if you would have pushed all in after the shortstack did, it would make it too tough for him to like his 10's much, and you would race with just the short stack... although in this situation in the past ive had the idiot with middle pair calling.

04-11-2005 04:59 PM #1
Rondavu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2005 Posts 3,327	$30,000 Tourney and AKs So I was in a $30,000 tourney. It was down to the last 4 tables, 35 people left. I had about 22,000 chips which was about 5,000 above average stack. I get AK suited. A small stack 7,000 goes all in. I call the 7,000 in SB expecting a showdown and then BB goes over the top of me all in with his 24,000 chips. I call and get eliminated. He had 10 10 and caught a set. No aces or kings popped. I think this was a huge lesson. Only risk your whole stack with AK when your hurting. I just couldn't stand losing 7,000 chips I already committed by laying down. I got sucked in. I know you'll all tell me I was stupid to call, but I play to win the whole tourney. This hand would have popped me up to 52,000 or so chips and the chip lead. I would have been the favorite going forth to win $7,000. What do ya say about this situation? Would the matador have called? Personally I think it was ballzy of him to go all in with 10's when either one of us could have had a higher pair. Nice move on his part I guess.
	It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside? Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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04-11-2005 05:08 PM #2
Pyroxene View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 243	Here is a suggestion, I am sure there are a zillion different view points on this. Like you said, it was an aggressive move for him to go in with 10s. When you are in the SB, outstacked by the BB and you are calling a significant All-In, if: a) you feel you will call if the BB pushes All-In after you AND b) you would rather not have the BB enter the pot then consider pushing All-In yourself when the action comes to you. It may not have made a difference in this case but it might have made him reconsider his tens. He could be thinking you are pulling a Rippy where you are calling a small stack All-In with a garbage hand, hoping to hit something. Going All-In first sends a stronger message. Just my 2 cents.
	Pyroxene
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04-11-2005 05:20 PM #3
drmcboy View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message DrButtInski Join Date Aug 2004 Posts 10,669	^^^ agree if you were going to call the AI, might as well go AI. Only reason to call not raise here is if you're going to fold to more aggresion.

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04-11-2005 07:08 PM #4
Rondavu View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2005 Posts 3,327	I thought of that too after the fact. My all in may have scared him off his tens. Turns out they both had me beat, but at least I would have only lost 7,000 chips. I kinda feel he would have called anyway with the tens. It seems to me when you have a high number pair like that you make up your mind before acting and when the other guy went all in he instantly decided to pounce. I just wish he was acting before me. I would have folded for sure.
	It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside? Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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04-14-2005 10:34 PM #5
aleksandr View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2005 Posts 302	Man, you were probably like 35% or something to have an awesome shot at $7k; you have AK, and he could just as easily be pushing with AQ thinking you're raggy trying to get the elim. Call that EVERY time.
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04-15-2005 01:09 AM #6
lovemachine View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Feb 2005 Posts 195	you should also base the decision on the level of the blinds. lets say the blinds are 2k/4k and you have 22k chips, i would definately move over the top with AK and only about 5x the big blind. but if the blinds are only 400/800, i'd say its an ok decision to just call the all-in then to fold to the over the top raise. although also, if the blinds are only 400/800, an all-in would be nearly 10x his stack which means you could also just make a case for laying it down preflop.

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04-15-2005 02:29 AM #7
gabe View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2004 Posts 12,344 Location trying to live	you must reraise hoping for the BB to fold. go allin.

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04-15-2005 04:07 PM #8
Fortune 500 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jun 2004 Posts 1,435 Location Bluffalupagus	Look at it mathematically... You're calling off 1/3 of your stack, leaving you with 15 K, 14 K in the pot. If the BB comes over top of you, there'll be basically 36,000 in the pot. (The original raisers 7k, Your 7k, 7k for the BB to call, and 15 K for him to reraise you in). You're looking at 15k to win 36k, or roughly 2.5 to 1 on your money with a premium hand. Unless you think you're up against AA or KK, you more or less have to call. If you're going to potentially be forced to make this play, Go All in Yourself. You may still have ended up in the same position, but you at least put the pressure on the BB and make him consider throwing it away. I know if I had a huge stack, two all ins, and only pocket tens... I would consider a laydown here. Just my thoughts.
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04-15-2005 07:18 PM #9
Element187 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Mar 2005 Posts 933 Location Orlando, FL	if you would have pushed all in after the shortstack did, it would make it too tough for him to like his 10's much, and you would race with just the short stack... although in this situation in the past ive had the idiot with middle pair calling.
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