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NLHE T&P - Week 8 Discussion p. 158-182

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zook

02-26-2007, 07:56 PM Post subject: NLHE T&P - Week 8 Discussion p. 158-182

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Participation has been down the last couple of weeks, let's not let this thing die! If you don't like my questions or think a different format would spark better discussions, please speak up.

1. What did you take from the Bluffing With a Fairly Good Hand section? (I'm asking b/c I didn't get much.)

2. What factors should you consider before pushing the flop with a strong draw?

3. How can you figure out what level your opponent is thinking on?

A quote I really like from p. 182:

Quote:

Don't be a sucker. There's a perfect, unbeatable strategy, and it's determined by math, not by talent. Great players don't stick to that strategy; they intentionally deviate from it to take advantage of their opponents. But truly great players also know full well what weaknesses those deviations expose, and if they see someone going after them, they shut down quickly. They're willing to make mistakes, but only when they can swap those mistakes to their opponents for bigger ones. When their mistakes become the big ones, they stop making them.

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pokerroomace

02-28-2007, 10:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 783

i think i'm half way through this section. i've read the "bluffing with fairly good hands" part.
i haven't read point 2 or 3 yet. i will read it in the next few days.

very nice quote.

the "bluffing with a fairly good hand" section hasn't helped me at all. you have to be playing against quite good opponents for them to fold a hand that is better than your average hand. and you have to know those opponents quite well.
i can't make use of it online because i don't have good enough reads on any single player.
and in the live games i'm playing - no one i play against can lay down a fairly big hand. so atm this section has no use to me. but maybe as i move up the stakes it will be useful.

point 2:
if you think you have quite a high chance of making your opponent fold and you have quite a big draw then i think it's a good idea to push.
if you would call if your opponent pushed and there is some chance he will fold if you push - then i think it's nearly always a good idea to push. if he is quite a weak/loose player though and you think you can see the rest of the hand for free but still get paid off when you hit - then i think it's a good idea to just check.
[when you saying "pushing" the flop, i'm assuming you mean pushing your stack in]

i don't have much to say on point 3). in live play - after about 20 minutes of play you can usually get a good feel on how they are playing and what level of thinking they are at. i don't play much with high level of thinking players though

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zenbitz

03-03-2007, 06:01 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

1) I don't really remember this section, but I hink it comes down to uncertaintly in opps. holdings. Obv. if you have a perfect read, you cannot "bluff with a good hand" since either your hand is better (your are not bluffing) or worse (you are bluffing). So I think it's just the foil if "if you are not sure you are ahead bet less often" - sometimes if you are not sure, you should bet because (given opps range) he should sometimes fold a better and (and ideally call with weaker... although typically not the same guy with the same range)

2) number of outs, obv. folding equity, obv. Non-nutness of your draw (this should cause you to semi-bluff less, since you might fold a worse draw that will pay you off when you both hit). "Whether the pot is protected".

3) This I find very difficult, certainly on-line. You can't even often tell if someone is pleased or relieved if they luck box you or vice versa. Also, I think it might be THEORETICALLY impossible to tell the difference between someone who is thinking on level 3 vs. level 5. (because they will respond the same way). Plus, I presume most people who think above level 2 EVER, are not always thinking on the same level.

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NLHE T&P - Week 8 Discussion p. 158-182

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