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zook
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01-29-2007, 06:08 PM
Post subject: NLHE T&P - Week 4 Discussion p. 75-97
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Another section with a lot of great stuff. This is my third time through the book and I'm amazed at how much I missed the first two times. I think I glossed over p. 87-90 b/c there are so many if's and so much math, but I got a lot more out of it this time. Some questions to get things started...
1. Sklansky & Miller suggest that betting for information is overrated. When is a good idea? Examples?
2. What do you take from the section on river value-betting (p. 87-90)? Are river c/r's common in your game? Bluff river c/r's?
3. What practical conclusions can you draw from the absolute and relative position section (p. 91-97)? For example, if there's an EP raiser and a caller or two, will you be more willing to call from the SB or BB, knowing you'll have relative position on the flop?
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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ive reread the bet sizing part this morning, will cover the rest when i get a chance.
Yeah i think betting for info/RR for info can be overrated probably just b/c ppl dont understand the concept and when to use it (i dont claim to know it fully). Im dont really know too many complex postflop situations where it can help where just value bets or pot control etc are more suitable.
Preflop tho (at 25NL anyway) i think (as Sklanksy noted) its best used and is simply execuated. Say you hold AK or JJ, there is a single PFR before you. you can of course call but a raise will provide better info ocz at these levels opp tend to give alot of respect to the PFRR but will usually rasie again with KK or AA and if they just call the you have gained alot of the upper hand postflop.
another part which raised my eyebrow tho is the part where (with AK) we RR a predictable player. sklansky mentioned almost making a minraise vs opp. granted we gain info on his hand but hwo much of a mistake is it to make a small raise vs opp's possible range (both tight player or looseplayer).
lol make sense?
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Dave Davis
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 100
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Minreraise surprised me too. Even in later sections, he advises pot sweetener minraises. That surprised me. If you reraise so small, you give pocket pairs odds to chase a set. It is not a great play. It gives you information that if you hit your ace or a king, it is good (no one has AA or KK), but it gives odds to a set.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Yeah, the min re-raise with AK advice (p. 79-80) is strange. Especially with 150BB effective stacks. I guess the arguments for it are that villain is a tight, straightforward player, so if he 4-bets you can easily lay it down, and you're in position with a hand that doesn't really want to bloat the pot. But it seems like a hard play to balance. Do you want to be min re-raising with QQ+ in this situation?
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The Odds God
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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If you reraise with QQ and AK, you actually get information that your overpair or TPTK is good on the flop if he just calls.
If someone minreraises with AK, someone might come over the top with QQ and it is not a loose play. Maybe even with JJ or TT to see what your minreraise means. Then you don't have a chance to flop TPTK. I don't think it is a good play to minreraise.
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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Fnord
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02-05-2007, 06:19 PM
Post subject: Re: NLHE T&P - Week 4 Discussion p. 75-97
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#6 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,204
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
1. Sklansky & Miller suggest that betting for information is overrated. When is a good idea? Examples?
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Been saying this for a while now. Raising for information depends on your opponent being predictable and is almost an exploitive line.
Power checks and checking for information is under-rated.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
3. What practical conclusions can you draw from the absolute and relative position section (p. 91-97)? For example, if there's an EP raiser and a caller or two, will you be more willing to call from the SB or BB, knowing you'll have relative position on the flop? |
Very important when assessing implied odds for stuff like pairs pre-flop and gut-shots post-flop.
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