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losttrem
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03-31-2007, 03:21 PM
Post subject: Who is the idiot here?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 177
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I thought villain couldnt call this push in a million years, because he could have been almost sure to finish at least second.
Read: Villain is a total fish. He build a big stack early with a couple of suck outs and then bullied everybody else around. But he folded some raised hands after I pushed back.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t600 (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
SB (t5595)
Hero (t6795)
Button (t1110)
Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , 2 .
1 fold, SB raises to t1200, Hero raises to t6745, SB calls t4345 (All-In).
Flop: (t12340) 8 , 9, T (2 players, 1 all-in)
Turn: (t12340) 5 (2 players, 1 all-in)
River: (t12340) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Final Pot: t12340
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FlyingSaucy
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: moral high ground
Posts: 1,509
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in order to determine if he was an idiot, it is important to know his cards.
If his hand was TT+ AQ, AK I would say he was not an idiot.
I like your reraise with atc but only if SB has been playing loose with his initial raises. Has a minraise been typical?
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losttrem
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 177
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Yes, the minraise was his typical steal raise since the blinds reached a certain level.
His cards were Q7 so he was an obvious idiot. But even if he had like AQ or JJ, wouldnt it be wrong for him to call for all his chips, since he could have been almost certain to finish 2nd?
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givememyleg
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ISHPERMING MISHIGEN
Posts: 4,446
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If this were on the bubble I'd like it, however once you're itm people gamble a lot more since they already "can't lose." I don't really like your push but his call is way worse.
Nice suckout btw! 
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dev
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: swonging and swonging
Posts: 1,477
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If he's a donk, he's a donk.
- Put him on ATC if you want, but don't put him on knowing tournament theory.
- Don't put him on folding +50% here, especially since you've been punishing his loose raises.
- Even so, if he knows tournament theory, he's probably playing for the win, not for second (not that Q7 is any kind of hand here, but we're talking theory, not results).
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FlyingSaucy
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: moral high ground
Posts: 1,509
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by losttrem
But even if he had like AQ or JJ, wouldnt it be wrong for him to call for all his chips, since he could have been almost certain to finish 2nd?
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Not necessarily. His read on you should be such that you would raise atc, so if his cards are premium or close to premium, he shouldn't pass up an opportunity to take 1st just because he doesn't want to risk taking 3rd. I'll let the icm wizzes theorize but my gut says he shouldn't lay down good cards just because he has a strong chance at taking 2nd. Go for the top and don't lay down good cards 3 handed.
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The Odds God
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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I was called today with 46s. Villain called my all in bet - I have put HIM all in with 46s and he called because he didn't want to be pushed around any more. I was pushing almost every hand 3 handed (because the blinds were huge) and he called me with 46s. He folded a lot of times to me before but now he decided to call me with 46s. So sick.
One of the most idiotic plays I have ever seen. Just to let you know of these idiots. They will fold to your all in bets and then they will find the most idiotic card possible and gamble. And yes, villain in your case is an idiot.
But with JJ or AQ, I would call imidiately and I think it is the right play. You would fold those in these circumstances?
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,041
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Let's say he knows that you are pushing a wide range. He can't profitably call with anything greater than 3.5% of all hands. That's like TT+ and AK.
You should be able to profitable push 25% (i.e. 22+,A2+,KT+,QTs+). Even at the loosest of calling ranges for villain.
I think that you both could have misplayed the hand considering your push with Q2o and if he called with something worse than said hands. Not a bad play, but you need to have something that plays better than Q2o.
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baron_greenback
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 118
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You said villain is a fish. Is it not true that Q7 is 50% against random cards? I reckon villain is the kind of fish that knows this and wants to gambool.
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The Odds God
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 252
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You made a great play here because you thought that he won't gamble because of a shortstack at a table. Gutsy play and stupid call. However, the way you described villain he might be a moron who plays every hand and isn't concerned with stack sizes. So - gutsy, but wrong play in this situation because of villain's image.
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The secret to success in poker is to rig the odds in your favor.
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losttrem
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 177
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I sharkscoped villain to find out he is -800 so he obviously has no clue about theory. But I thought he was still able to realize that there was no need for him to get involved in such a situation. I guess he was just pissed/tilting because I played back at him a couple of times and thus made some kind of an "ah, what the hell" move.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,041
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by losttrem
I sharkscoped villain to find out he is -800 so he obviously has no clue about theory.
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^^^There's your answer. ABC poka baby. You can't bluff a tard.
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losttrem
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 177
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Guess you are right. I just thought that he might understand the situation from a non-theoretical point of view. As in "I can almost be sure to be second, but if I lose this hand I am out third". There's not much knowledge needed for this string of thoughts.
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Sprayed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: GO BUCKS!
Posts: 3,041
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by losttrem
Guess you are right. I just thought that he might understand the situation from a non-theoretical point of view. As in "I can almost be sure to be second, but if I lose this hand I am out third". There's not much knowledge needed for this string of thoughts.
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The thing is, they don't think and they only see the pretty ATh staring at them. I have to call in order to win 1st! BTW, I don't think it's a bad play if you are pushing hands that are +EV against his range.
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TLR
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Stars $16 and $27 Sngs
Posts: 4,733
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Once people get ITM they play way more loosly.
The prize structure is such that once you are ITM you should take risks to finish first.
His call is not great unless he puts you on ATC
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jimmy44
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: In the Matrix
Posts: 1,329
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Odds God
I was called today with 46s. Villain called my all in bet - I have put HIM all in with 46s and he called because he didn't want to be pushed around any more. I was pushing almost every hand 3 handed (because the blinds were huge) and he called me with 46s. He folded a lot of times to me before but now he decided to call me with 46s. So sick.
One of the most idiotic plays I have ever seen.
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This is why we can make good money!
I don't know how much time I got sucked out by this kind of play and it's not easy to handle it when it happens. However, the fact that some guys do not know the theory and play too dumm it's very very very very good for us!
Take a deep breath and think about it this way! (Something I have to learn to do more often  )
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dsmrolla06
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: South Bend IN
Posts: 715
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I think its a good play most of the time against most players. Even if their raising range is pretty wide it doesnt mean that their calling a 3 bet range is near that wide.
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