TTT..Turn action

[thelorax]

Local 1/2/3 game.

Effective stacks ~$350

Villain is a decent aggressive player. Relevant Reads= Seen him donk flop in 3 way pot on (Jxx tt) and fold to a raise. He hasnt shown down much in big pots, but when he has, hes had it.

Im UTG+1 w/ TT and make it $13

MP2 calls, BU calls, Villain in BB calls.

Flop: 3c 9d Td

Villain in BB donks for 15. I make it 50, all others fold, he calls.

Turn: Kd. Villain checks...HERO?
(about $160 in the pot, I have a little less than $300 behind.)

[eugmac]

bet/call about 100, bet the rest on a non-diamond river is probably about what I'd do. i probably tank if he shovels over the turn bet though, but call eventually nonetheless. really depends on if you think he would shovel worse than a straight.

[Leah47]

Ok, so i think he has under pair....his range:4's to 8's....you should of re raised him on the flop, if he calls, you have to assume he is chasing a straight or flush, if he doesn't call you win the pot and not have to worry about a danger card on turn..which it was the King of Diamonds which is danger card....if you bet less then 40% of pot on the turn, he will probably fold...if he re raises or just calls here...your probably beat...

[eugmac]

Ok, so i think he has under pair....his range:4's to 8's....you should of re raised him on the flop, if he calls, you have to assume he is chasing a straight or flush, if he doesn't call you win the pot and not have to worry about a danger card on turn..which it was the King of Diamonds which is danger card....if you bet less then 40% of pot on the turn, he will probably fold...if he re raises or just calls here...your probably beat...

Underpair on the flop...? 44-88?

We should of "re raised" flop?

How does your range of 44-88 turn into a straight or flush draw?

His probably beat what?

You waited all this time to make THIS your first post on FTR?

[drmcboy]

raise more on flop to set up turn shove, $35 gives great odds and leaves bad stack sizes, why did you chose this sizing?

bet/call now, too many hands that you beat he could jam with + equity vs made hands.

[rpm]

yeah i raise flop to at least 65. given our read that he has donk/folded a tt flop before, i imagine he either donks and folds to raises, or donks and calls them (regardless of size). so i think anything he will call 50 with he will call 65/70. as played i guess we have to bet call but it's pretty anonoying only having 20% against his made flushes the times he has them.

[Fnord]

Flat your set, although I could see him thinking your FoS here...

As played I'd bet $100ish on the turn and check behind the river.

[thelorax]

raise more on flop to set up turn shove, $35 gives great odds and leaves bad stack sizes, why did you chose this sizing?

bet/call now, too many hands that you beat he could jam with + equity vs made hands.

cause Im a live nooblet and I suck at math.
but yeh, like 75/ shove is prob a better line.

do you guys not feel his donk/call range is weighted more towards draws?

[RockyMoose]

I gotta ask, as played, why not check turn behind? We're way ahead/way behind, so why not check for pot control? Or is our hand too strong for that and board too wet?

My plan would then be to either call a value bet on most rivers, or if checked to, value bet most rivers. By checking the turn, it also makes our flop raise look like BS like we're giving up or scared of the draws that got there. Villain can rep the flush on the river, of course, but we have showdown value and might boat up with a card to come.

Also, any reads on villain? Did the turn give him a boner?

[eugmac]

Flat your set, although I could see him thinking your FoS here...

As played I'd bet $100ish on the turn and check behind the river.

Do you really think value betting non-diamond rivers when checked to is too thin?

[chardrian]

I raise this flop everytime. Only thing I don't like is your sizing. Pot has 50ish on the flop and this guy is donking for $15. I raise close to pot here (e.g. 70-80ish).

As played I check back here. I don't see a huge point in betting since we are in a WA/WB situation; he either has the flush or straight and we are drawing slim or we have him crushed versus an overpair; smaller set; or 2 pair which he will be freaked out about when the draws just came in. A check induces worse hands to bet for value or bluff and keeps us from going broke when he has the nizzles + gives us a chance to boat up. A bet gets worse hands to fold and traps us into the hand against hands that just hit.

[baudib]

Fnord, can you talk about why you'd flat with the nuts here? In my recent thread you talked about calling with draws instead of raising as well, I'm curious as to why you'd flat in these spots that seem like standard raises. You know I have huge respect for your game/opinions and am not being a smartass.

[chardrian]

I am also curious - I think flatting here is retarded unless you have a read that the 2 players left behind you will very often raise in this spot to try and steal a bloated pot.

[thelorax]

I am curious as well about flatting here. You guys obviously have more live experience than me, but online im like never flatting this spot given board texture/4way action.


Soo not to derail discussion or anything, but i elected to check behind for some pot control/to bink the river.

River was a brick like 4h or something, and villain pretty quickly leads for 140.
I pretty much have to call right?

[pocketfours]

River was a brick like 4h or something, and villain pretty quickly leads for 140.
I pretty much have to call right?

Looks more like a fold, but get some reads.

[RockyMoose]

i elected to check behind for some pot control/to bink the river.

River was a brick like 4h or something, and villain pretty quickly leads for 140.
I pretty much have to call right?

I can find a fold here against the type of villain you described. It's almost a pot sized bet. Are you really ahead here more than half the time? If he had a lower set or two pair, action would have been different on the flop or turn, and river bet wouldn't be so big if he was scared of you having the flush.

As played, he's got a flush, less likely a straight, and even less likely something you're beating. If he hasn't got you beat, then he's played the hand really well out of position, which seems least likely of all.

I'm trying to think about what size bet I would call here. I think 3:1 is a minimum unless he's the type to never pot the river without the goods.

[Fnord]

Fnord, can you talk about why you'd flat with the nuts here?

Yeah, flatting a T9x two tone board is probably retarded and I'd probably stay on the gas on such a wet board.

If the board is any dryier though, I'm usually flatting my sets barring reads, metagame, etc.

[Numbr2intheWorld]

I actually kind of like checking back turn

[thelorax]

I actually kind of like checking back turn

are you calling or folding to villains river bet?