BCS fun...

[Chopper]

here's another question to all you BCS/ncaaf fans.

who is the most OVERRATED?

and, who is the most UNDERRATED?

[a500lbgorilla]

why do the have to be capitalized?

[Chopper]

my overrated team is...my kansas jayhawks.

i remember in 95 or 96, whenever it was, we climbed up to #11 the same way we did this year, by crushing nobodys. ball st 62-10ish. uab 72-0. and in week 5 or 6, michigan st and Tony Banks came rolling in to Lawrence. and, we got crushed. it will happen again, as we still have not played a "real" team. Kansas St doesnt count...neither will nebraska. ashamed to say that colorado or mizzou will be our strongest tests. wow, what a patsy schedule.

my underrated has to be someone from the SEC. maybe LSU, but its hard to overlook a #5 team that's only loss was in triple OT. but, the SEC is by far the toughest conference in football year in and year out, imo. top to bottom there arent a lot of weaklings.

and with all that competition, look at what spurrier is doing for the 'Cocks. thats right, i said it. Cocks. hehe any excuse to say it. but, seriously, i thought Lou Holtz would do great things down there, and when he didnt, i thought Spurrier couldnt either. i guess i was wrong again.

[Chopper]

why do the have to be capitalized?

boy is that nit-picky. because i started the thread, and thought it looked better that way. lol.

ps. just for that, i am never mentioning VaTech in anything i do...EVER.

j/k

[kmind]

I think BC is a tad overrated and I think USF is a tad underrated from fans perspectives. Seems like everyone is surprised. I had them to be top 10 this year 2 years ago.

[WildBobAA]

Kansas isn't overrated because no one thinks they're any good anyway so how can they be overrated? Case in point: They're one of the few undefeated teams left and they're still way down at #15 in both polls.

AND LOL at claiming LSU is "underrated". Most people still believe LSU is the best team in the country.


For me the most overrated team is Boston College
The most underrated team is (homer pick warning) Michigan

[Chopper]

Kansas isn't overrated because no one thinks they're any good anyway so how can they be overrated? Case in point: They're one of the few undefeated teams left and they're still way down at #15 in both polls.

AND LOL at claiming LSU is "underrated". Most people still believe LSU is the best team in the country.


For me the most overrated team is Boston College
The most underrated team is (homer pick warning) Michigan

seriously, bob, i am just having some fun. i dont mean to insult you personally. seriously.

but that said, are you high? Kansas shouldnt even be IN the polls. well, not inside the top 20. who have they played? sure, they smoke pansy schools. but, any decent team can do that. there are plenty of SEC schools, and Big 11 (i mean 10) schools that could do the same. and some of them arent ranked. kansas is still getting too much credit at #15.

and i dont think Michigan, sentimental as it may be, is underrated. and i dont think USC is underrated, either. Appalachian St? wow. i dont care how bad you played, they should not have beaten you. period. and then to lose the very next week? ouch. bye bye season i dont care how well you finish.

my point, though, about LSU being underrated is by the minor margin by which they lost, and how far they fell in the polls. no way they should be #5. no way, they should be under USF, imo. if they played, what do you think the result would be? LSU by 10? more?

i thought you would have said Hawaii, fwiw.

[WildBobAA]

seriously, bob, i am just having some fun. i dont mean to insult you personally. seriously.

I have nothing against you personally, I was just stating why I think Kansas is not overrated and LSU is not underrated.

and i dont think Michigan, sentimental as it may be, is underrated. Appalachian St? wow. i dont care how bad you played, they should not have beaten you. period. and then to lose the very next week? ouch. bye bye season i dont care how well you finish.

This is exactly why Michigan is underrated. Everyone knows that Michigan lost to App. St. so now everyone assumes Michigan won't do anything. But Michigan can still win the Big Ten and go to a BCS bowl. Now that would involve beating Ohio State which is unlikely. But I'm not convinced Ohio State is that dominant of a team yet. Anytime Michigan and Ohio State play the rankings are thrown out the window anyway and more often than not it's a close game. So by saying "bye bye season" are you claiming that it's meaningless if Michigan makes it to a BCS game and wins?

my point, though, about LSU being underrated is by the minor margin by which they lost, and how far they fell in the polls. no way they should be #5. no way, they should be under USF, imo. if they played, what do you think the result would be? LSU by 10? more?

Once again this comes down to the issue of what the human polls represent. I've stated repeatedly that I think LSU is the best team in the country and would beat USF but USF has earned their #2 BCS ranking (which I think should be #1).

i thought you would have said Hawaii, fwiw.

I think we can both agree that Hawaii is severely overrated.

[WildBobAA]

but that said, are you high? Kansas shouldnt even be IN the polls. well, not inside the top 20. who have they played? sure, they smoke pansy schools. but, any decent team can do that. there are plenty of SEC schools, and Big 11 (i mean 10) schools that could do the same. and some of them arent ranked. kansas is still getting too much credit at #15.

Somehow my response to this got deleted from my last post but basically what I said is that this comes down to what you believe the human polls represent. Are they there to rank the 25 best teams from 1-25 in order or are they there to reward schools that do well and punish good teams that underachieve? Personally I believe the latter but that is a whole different debate.

[mcatdog]

It's a combination of the two. In the beginning, the preseason polls are supposed to rank the 25 best teams. As the season goes on, the polls should become more and more about performance and less and less about predictive power. The final poll should have nothing to do with ranking the teams and everything to do with how well they performed.

By this point in the year I think they should be mostly about performance on the field. If anyone thinks that Florida isn't one of the ten best teams in CFB, then that person is an idiot. But there are >10 teams who have accomplished more than them so they aren't there.

Edit: I'm not saying just rank the teams by their records. If Team 1 is 5-1 against all Top 25 teams and Team 2 is Hawaii then Team 1 has accomplished more than Team 2.

[Chopper]

bob,

no, i am not saying it is a worthless season in terms of taking positives out of winning a BCS bowl. a lot of teams could only be so fortunate.

i was assuming that anything less than a national championship, to a storied program like MU, is almost failure...like the NYYankess.

mcat,

i totally agree with polls being "performance based," but they arent. they get there in the end...sort of, but there are still biases.

but, it also is VERY difficult to determine team by team when very few of these teams play the same opponents.

that is why i think we all agree on a playoff system of some kind.

[lolzzz_321]

we beat K state!

[mcatdog]

i was assuming that anything less than a national championship, to a storied program like MU, is almost failure...like the NYYankess.

I hope they think so and keep firing any coach who doesn't win a title every year the way Notre Dame does

national championship or bust isn't possible in the current environment because the talent pool in college football is too deep

[WildBobAA]

I think the majority of Michigan fans consider that a season is a failure if Michigan doesn't win a BCS game rather than a national championship and realize that national championships are very hard to come by. The reason Lloyd Carr is on the hot seat is because he can't beat Ohio State and he loses every bowl game he coaches in, not because of the 10 year national championship drought.

[iolzizlyi]

i always think ohio state is overrated just based on the fact that they never play anybody. this year especially. the best ranked team (currently) they have beaten is purdue at #23. they will of course play michigan soon who is ranked 25 and that's it. actually upon further research purdue is now unranked. so once again ohio state will go to the bcs championship and we'll have a mediocre team against a really good team. just like last year.

i am also kinda biased. i really hate OSU.

[Chopper]

we beat K state!

i know. i hope i didnt imply we lost. all i was saying was that they are not the program of the "bill snyder" days. just like nebraska sucked once tom osborne left. talk about championship or bust. nebraska is either "championship or FALL ON YOUR FACE" or "quit using the wishbone, and never see the top 25 again" i cant tell which. lol.

maybe this oughta be another thread, but...

what was the biggest college game you ever attended in terms of "atmosphere?"

just let me know if you want me to put it in another thread.

[PapalRage]

we beat UCLA...

biggest atmosphere was last years ND vs Michigan game...was quite pissed we turned the ball over 5 times.

two years from now though...we will be contending again, or at least ranked top 5 preseason

[vqc]

Go USC. They probably won't beat Cal (or Oregon for that matter) =( , regardless of how long their undefeated record against ranked teams is.

[lolzzz_321]

USF lost..

[Frink]

USF lost..

The party was fun while it lasted.

[mcatdog]

Exhibit 4521 on why you need to watch a team play before you really know how good they are. Wow at how bad USF's offense is, Rutgers started blitzing them on every down once they realized that their QB wasn't capable of a basic screen pass. Their defense is pretty sick but they're not a top 10 team.

[EzDuzIt]

the only teams i think are for real this year are OSU, LSU, OU, and Kentucky.
underrated i would say auburn, wisconsin (they were very overrated before but now they arent even in the top 25), and michigan.

[Chopper]

Exhibit 4521 on why you need to watch a team play before you really know how good they are. Wow at how bad USF's offense is, Rutgers started blitzing them on every down once they realized that their QB wasn't capable of a basic screen pass. Their defense is pretty sick but they're not a top 10 team.

i'm not picking on you here, mcat, but i think most people were flaming me just last week for saying USF wasnt any good.

i heard, "but they beat Auburn and West Virginia." bla bla bla

doesnt matter anymore. and, now for others to jump in and say they are not a Top 10 team. where were you last week when i was being hung out to dry?

easy to say they suck after they lose. and, i didnt necessarily say they sucked, i just said they werent for real, especially when compared to OSU, OU, etc.

there's a reason the bigger schools get preferential treatment. and last night was just another example.

but you guys can keep calling my comments stupid, and you can keep saying you cant take me seriously. that's fine.

oh, and "No," i didnt need to watch any of USF's games to say they werent a great team. and i dont need to watch any of OSU/LSU's games to say they are pretty good teams. jury will always be out on OSU until the bowl because of their schedule, but i think we will all agree that they are better than USF now.

[WildBobAA]

Their loss last night doesn't invalidate anything I previously said. If you remember I said that I didn't believe they were one of the 5 best teams in the country but despite that, they had earned the #2 ranking at that time. Obviously you missed the main point of my posts.

Why do you think a team isn't "for real" if they lose a game? How do you define being "for real"? I guess the only teams that are for real are OSU, BC, Arizona State, and Kansas.

This is what I've gathered from your posts: if a big school loses 2 games they are having a HORRID season (Florida), a big school can lose 1 game and still be "for real", if a small school loses a game their season is over, they shouldn't bother playing the rest of their games. The fact is USF still has a great shot at winning the Big East and getting an automatic BCS bid. But oh yeah, if a team doesn't win a national championship it's "bye bye season"

[EzDuzIt]

if USF was in a BCS bowl that would be a huge season for them. just because they snuck up to #2 somehow with all the craziness doesnt mean they were really a top 5 caliber team.

[mcatdog]

Chopper,

In the other thread you said that USF had played a cupcake schedule which was horribly wrong and the fact that they lost last night doesn't change that. You also said they'd get blown out by freaking Texas. At least you didn't say that again this time.

Earlier in this thread I said rankings should be based on performance and resume, not a ranking of how good teams are. You even said you agreed with me but your post shows you don't understand the difference which is why you're missing the point. Before last night USF had the best resume in the country and deserved to be ranked #1. That's all Bob and I were ever saying. I never said they were the best team in the country, or even a Top 10 team, because I didn't know. Now I'm saying they're not that good and it's because I watched the game, not because they lost. Unlike you I don't comment on how good teams are unless I watch them play. You obviously like to be the guy who throws a bunch of crap at the wall and hopes some of it sticks so keep it up.

[Chopper]

Their loss last night doesn't invalidate anything I previously said. If you remember I said that I didn't believe they were one of the 5 best teams in the country but despite that, they had earned the #2 ranking at that time. Obviously you missed the main point of my posts.

Why do you think a team isn't "for real" if they lose a game? How do you define being "for real"? I guess the only teams that are for real are OSU, BC, Arizona State, and Kansas.

This is what I've gathered from your posts: if a big school loses 2 games they are having a HORRID season (Florida), a big school can lose 1 game and still be "for real", if a small school loses a game their season is over, they shouldn't bother playing the rest of their games. The fact is USF still has a great shot at winning the Big East and getting an automatic BCS bid. But oh yeah, if a team doesn't win a national championship it's "bye bye season"

you make me laugh. and, it sounds about right to me. maybe a bit ridiculous, too. did you know i worked for the BCS committee a couple years back? and, bob, my post wasnt directed to you, either.

but, one difference. i have been bashing Kansas, logically. but, on the bandwagon, emotionally. kind of like you and Michigan. but, we all know you win that battle on a neutral site, right? honestly, i dont drink the Kool-Aide. MU would prolly embarrass the 'Hawks.

yes, small schools in the BCS is a major accomplishment because its so hard for them to even get a looksee. and what it does for "recruiting" should pay dividends for several years, if they have a coaching staff/athletic program that knows how to capitalize on it. (another bonehead statement warning: but, the smaller schools generally dont have those mental capacities because they cant pay like the big schools...so they also are doing all this on subpar talent, administratively speaking)

yes, a "big"/established school can get a mulligan (not necessarily my opinion, i am siting history here), but TWO losses and they are finished (no BCS bid = HORRID season...to the program, not the die-hard fans...they will be too busy making excuses). if michigan sniffs a BCS bid, i will be a little surprised, even though they are starting to get a ton of press again...deservedly so. but, a smaller school CANNOT lose even once, or "it was a fluke." again, not my words....HISTORY proves this over and over again.

"bye bye season" is reserved for UF, LSU, USC, OSU, etc...the teams that EXPECT to win one every season (or at least know they have a good shot every year). others that used to be in that category: ND, Michigan, FSU, Nebraska, UCLA (a long time ago). yes, they may have still had a great season by your standards and mine, but the administrators/coaches/players/fans all know that when they lose, their seasons are effectively ruined, unless something fluky happens. do they give up? NO, but they know they are unlikely to achieve their only goal...national championship. they dont sit and say, "well, our goal was win 10 games, so we did it, woohoo." once they lose, they are BUMMED.

and, "resume" means a lot in college football. maybe thats wrong, maybe its right, but its a fact. plain and simple. and last night sort of proved why. now what for USF? how far do they fall? how much chance do they have to get back up there with their schedule, now? if the Big East is so tough, are we going to say UConn or Cincy or Rutgers should shoot to the top 10 because they've played quality opponents? UConn leads the Big East right now. are they all of a sudden a great team? no. virtually any team from the SEC would be leading the Big East right now, we all know that.

as for the "one of those guys that throws crap at the wall" comment. thats a blatant insult. yes, i talk smack, but none of it has been directed at you personally with the intention of calling you a "dumbass" or whatever. i really think that was an unfair "shot."

i thought this was just a fun debate amongst guys that could be friends if they lived in the same town and have a beer. but, whatever, i guess. obv, i wont get the last word here anyway. but, thanks for the conversations.

[WildBobAA]

yes, a "big"/established school can get a mulligan (not necessarily my opinion, i am siting history here), but TWO losses and they are finished (no BCS bid = HORRID season...to the program, not the die-hard fans...they will be too busy making excuses). if michigan sniffs a BCS bid, i will be a little surprised, even though they are starting to get a ton of press again...deservedly so. but, a smaller school CANNOT lose even once, or "it was a fluke." again, not my words....HISTORY proves this over and over again.

Chopper I don't think you understand how automatic BCS bids work. The winners of the power conferences get automatic BCS bids. The out of conference games only act as a tiebreaker for the conference standings. It sounds like you're saying that it's not possible for Michigan to get a BCS bid but if they win out (which I don't think they will) they will be undefeated in the Big Ten and it is a 100% fact that they would get a BCS bid. If OSU and Michigan both go undefeated until they play e ach other and Michigan wins, Michigan would be the Big Ten champion since they would have a better Big Ten record than OSU even though OSU would have only one loss overall vs Michigan's two. The same goes for USF except now USF needs Rutgers to lose a Big East game. If USF wins out and Rutgers loses a 2nd big east game (they already lost one) USF would go to a BCS bowl because they would get an automatic bid.

So it's very possible for Michigan and USF to get BCS bids, albeit, they probably won't win out but contrary to what you're saying, Michigan and USF both have decent shots to make BCS games despite Michigan having two losses and USF losing yesterday.

and, "resume" means a lot in college football. maybe thats wrong, maybe its right, but its a fact. plain and simple. and last night sort of proved why.

I'm not really sure what you're saying here. USF had the best resume in college football prior to Thursday and they lost. Why does them losing with the best resume prove that resume means a lot? Why do you suddenly think resume means a lot now? Before last night it sounded like you believed resume meant nothing.


I like having debates but I just don't understand some of your previous arguments. For example you were saying how USF didn't impress you after beating Florida and WVU because you said Florida was having an off year. Then I asked you who you thought was the best team in the country and you said Oklahoma. But Oklahoma lost to Colorado! And also, Oklahoma did beat Texas but you shouldn't be impressed by that since Texas has two losses and therefore is having an "off" year. Considering these statements, why were you impressed with Oklahoma and not with USF (and don't bring up last night because this happened BEFORE yesterday).