Quality stuff. Rapid fire deconstruction of the typical statistics and rationales used to claim that, institutionally, whites are privileged and blacks are oppressed. Includes how this narrative in action harms black communities.
03-26-2016 02:58 PM
#1
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Mythbusting white privilegeQuality stuff. Rapid fire deconstruction of the typical statistics and rationales used to claim that, institutionally, whites are privileged and blacks are oppressed. Includes how this narrative in action harms black communities. |
03-26-2016 03:08 PM
#2
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03-26-2016 05:10 PM
#3
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Well, if we are looking for evidence of white privilege, where is the best place to look? | |
03-26-2016 05:50 PM
#4
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This is something I would like to focus on because I view the sentiment as the backbone of the privilege and social justice narrative. I have yet to be able to explain what I want to on it, but it does not sit right with me. |
03-26-2016 06:43 PM
#5
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There are like 4 ways to go with this. | |
Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 03-26-2016 at 06:45 PM. | |
03-26-2016 07:01 PM
#6
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Is this you getting at your point previously where it exists but it does so for a reason, hence profiling etc being ok? I've only ever been stopped by police a few times in my life, those times when I've been committing minor crimes (i.e. pissing in the street) which I've talked my way out of & those times when I've been with black friends & been stopped for no reason. Admittedly only in London never in Manchester but at the same time most of my friends in Manchester are white, whereas in London they were much more mixed. |
03-26-2016 07:17 PM
#7
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This is a good conversation to have, it's just there are so many different avenues and angles of attack that it deserves a hundred voices. | |
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03-26-2016 07:51 PM
#8
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Indeed. It's a great leap from here to privilege. |
03-26-2016 08:04 PM
#9
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This is where I disagree, most policies don't address things the way I want them do. That's the whole point of a lower bound & that lower bound should raise issues not dictate them. For example if I own a company of 200 people and only 5 of them are women you should be able to explain why. Whereas explaining why it's not 50/50 is stupid. |
03-26-2016 08:24 PM
#10
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Perhaps privilege is a generalization of a very large group where people of similar circumstances have grouped up? | |
03-26-2016 08:26 PM
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03-26-2016 08:30 PM
#12
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03-26-2016 08:51 PM
#13
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Oooh, this is too good of a point to have just been blown by. | |
03-26-2016 08:57 PM
#14
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Even the most well-crafted and well-functioning policy and agency for this would provide results less good than having none in the first place. The economic principle at work is that when a company discriminates on things like this, it increases their costs and lowers the costs of their competitors, which undermines the poorly discriminating company's ability to continue to do so and rewards the competing companies better behavior. Governmental policy is not that good at undermining bad behavior (it inadvertently supports bad behavior more often than not), but the free market has undermined bad behavior consistently. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 03-26-2016 at 09:21 PM. | |
03-26-2016 09:06 PM
#15
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03-26-2016 09:16 PM
#16
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This is something I've pondered and discussed with others before. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 03-26-2016 at 09:19 PM. | |
03-26-2016 09:16 PM
#17
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03-26-2016 09:25 PM
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America was white first. It's like investing - the most important elements are principle and time. Get the most in as early as possible and just let it grow. | |
Last edited by a500lbgorilla; 03-26-2016 at 09:37 PM. | |
03-27-2016 03:46 AM
#19
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Grunching.... But prison amd this | |
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03-27-2016 08:35 AM
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56 years old and he's never had a drop? This man cannot be trusted for he is blind. | |
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03-27-2016 11:44 AM
#21
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I love me some personal responsibility, but this isn't an area where I think the prospective student has much capacity to inform their decisions. My n=1: I'm attending an average difficulty university. At least I think it is, I really have no clue. I have no idea how much harder, easier, or the same Harvard would be. Attending Harvard is such a net good regardless of aptitude that most would be fools to turn it down. The job of the admissions personnel is almost entirely to make sure that the right candidates are selected. If somebody were to be accepted, it is reasonable for them to think that they have the mettle for the institution. |
03-27-2016 01:15 PM
#22
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They have plenty of capacity. They can research, tour, and ask about the university. They can pick majors which are more or less challenging. Affirmative action doesn't prevent people from making just as much of an informed decision as anyone else. | |
03-27-2016 05:21 PM
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This is a model of the effects in a vacuum. Maybe the model holds accurate, but there's no reason to think so. | |
03-27-2016 05:22 PM
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03-27-2016 05:30 PM
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Are there angles you can shoot as a black person? Yeah... But I think you have a seriously delusional idea of what it is like to be non-white. Further the hypothetical was sort of rigged in favour of your argument in that people don't get to chose their background and disproportionately the average black person is going to be born into less preferable circumstances. | |
03-27-2016 05:54 PM
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It doesn't work |
03-27-2016 05:58 PM
#27
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The effects of special treatment end up not being a net "leg up", partly because the costs aren't associated proportionately. My hypothetical was focused on the micro while policy is macro. |
03-27-2016 06:09 PM
#28
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Related, even though it may not seem to be: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/...dress_the.html |
03-27-2016 06:19 PM
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03-27-2016 06:22 PM
#30
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Like, there's a glaring contradiction in your rhetoric. Why are you prescribing solutions to a problem that does not exist? If affirmative action and similar policies are detrimental to blacks, how is it that there is no white privilege? | |
03-27-2016 06:58 PM
#31
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Stopping in to say that home ownership, college attendence, and employment could all have been adversely affected by the start of the war on drugs. Tons of things happened in the 60s, and I'm not sure the "welfare state" is to blame for poor performance. | |
03-27-2016 07:04 PM
#32
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No one has to apply to college. No one has to apply to colleges outside of their ability. How is it that when blacks make poor decisions regarding education, it isn't entirely their fault? Why didn't they research more? Why didn't they study harder? | |
03-27-2016 11:04 PM
#33
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I'm not sure that I understand your point. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 03-27-2016 at 11:25 PM. | |
03-27-2016 11:24 PM
#34
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The destruction of black communities doesn't correlate with the drug war that well. It does correlate with welfare. It also makes sense from an economics perspective. The drug war isn't exactly bad, but harsh sentencing has had exacerbating effects on communities starting quite a bit later than the 60s. No consensus theory for the destruction of black communities exists, but the leading hypotheses include a mix of welfare that incentivizes single-motherhood and disincentivizes work, increasingly centralized funding and regulation of schools that have basically shredded education in poor communities, and a de-policing of the violent communities that has created capital flight and inhibited capital entry. Include the ethos with the policies. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 03-27-2016 at 11:36 PM. | |
03-27-2016 11:29 PM
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Again, I can agree that our current solutions are possibly and even likely not going to get the results intended-- but you seem to keep making this jump to there not being a problem. Privilege can exist as a phenomenon while also being a phrase that's thrown around too much, used irresponsibly as a way to dismiss people through guilt, and just generally abused. | |
03-27-2016 11:30 PM
#36
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I should add that whites do get net negative unintended consequences from affirmative action. It's a negative for all groups even though some individuals within the groups can use it as a positive. |
Last edited by wufwugy; 03-27-2016 at 11:38 PM. | |
03-27-2016 11:34 PM
#37
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I think we've reached a point where these sorts of inequalities, and thus the claims of white privileges that accompanied them, don't exist, at least not institutionally or widespread. |
03-27-2016 11:48 PM
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03-27-2016 11:55 PM
#39
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03-28-2016 12:02 AM
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Maybe. But the drug war has had a huge economic effect as well. Suddenly black men are arrested way more frequently, sent to prison, and given felony records. That creates single mothers, cuts household income, and makes succeeding in school much harder for fatherless children. Then, once they're back, they can't contribute because of their record. | |
03-28-2016 12:10 AM
#41
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Harsh sentencing certainly seems to have exacerbated the problems over the last ~20 years. |
03-28-2016 02:03 PM
#42
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The problem with the concept of privilege as a whole is that the vast majority of discussion about it (not necessarily represented by the discussion here) contributes to what has been called "victim culture." Put another way, it's largely just used as another excuse for someone not to get off of their ass and work instead of being put to any meaningful positive purpose. | |
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