no end in sight

[wufwugy]

anybody else seen this doc?

made in 06, about iraq war and occupation. after watching it i am convinced that those in charge of this horror (bush cheney rumsfeld etc) should be tried for war crimes.

assuming the information in the film is accurate, i am awestruck at how god awfully the occupation was/is conducted. it's as if the administration in charge felt this is a joke and a game and their one objective is to do the opposite of what will bring peace and progress to the nation while committing inhumane acts on scale with the worst of human history.

excellent movie; watch it now, thank me later

[daven]

yep, they're as bad as the serbian on trial now.
Difference - they lead a super-power.
They'll have a fun retirement - it's like, how often do the marines charged with rape etc. actually get found guilty? about never.
the world hates USA, but not citizens of the USA - but for some of the world (e.g. try living in the Middle East, i was in Oman briefly) they are indistinguishable...

[will641]

it's as if the administration in charge felt this is a joke and a game and their one objective is to do the opposite of what will bring peace and progress to the nation while committing inhumane acts on scale with the worst of human history.

you obviously dont have a clue about reality or human history, FWIW.

[mixchange]

yep, they're as bad as the serbian on trial now.
Difference - they lead a super-power.
They'll have a fun retirement - it's like, how often do the marines charged with rape etc. actually get found guilty? about never.
the world hates USA, but not citizens of the USA - but for some of the world (e.g. try living in the Middle East, i was in Oman briefly) they are indistinguishable...

great post

I think what ppl don't realize is history isn't as different from what happens now than what they thought. Somehow Americans get the idea we're some kind of special nation leading some special new type of cause. America does have some new political concepts, but men in power did not change.

[wufwugy]

it's as if the administration in charge felt this is a joke and a game and their one objective is to do the opposite of what will bring peace and progress to the nation while committing inhumane acts on scale with the worst of human history.

you obviously dont have a clue about reality or human history, FWIW.

what is this?

if you would simply qualify your statement i can either learn from your enlightened vantage or illustrate why youre wrong

[Jack Sawyer]

yes, and it keeps getting worse by the day.

one by one all your "rights" will be stripped, replaced with a media-induced want for mindless things

wake up people, wake up

[SaulPaul]

http://www.videosift.com/video/No-En...ght-full-movie

here is the video

[bigspenda73]

clicked the link, got distracted by this video:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Trium...-at-Comicon-08

[bode]

clicked the link, got distracted by this video:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Trium...-at-Comicon-08

best video in the thread so far

[bigspenda73]

might be the funniest thing I've ever seen

search for him on youtube, it's fucking incredible, I've been laughing for an hour.

[bode]

yeah, triumph is always hilarious.

[spoonitnow]

We are fuuuucked, and that's one reason I'm not having kids.

[BennyLaRue]

We are fuuuucked, and that's one reason I'm not having kids.

The thing is, what is anyone actually doing about it? I think yours is a pretty common refrain but is met with total fucking apathy.

[ATOTHEC101]

unbelieveable, really eye opening documentary and it makes me sick to my stomach.

[spoonitnow]

We are fuuuucked, and that's one reason I'm not having kids.

The thing is, what is anyone actually doing about it? I think yours is a pretty common refrain but is met with total fucking apathy.

I know, it sucks. And fwiw, the other reason I'm not having kids is because I'd be too quick to snap off some little bastard trying to date my hypothetical daughter and I'm not taking a 50:50 on an inevitable jail sentence.

But I digress. I vote, and I try to make people more aware of things by calling them out on stupid shit that gets mentioned from time to time in this uber-conservative shithole (politically speaking) I live in.

[will641]

it's as if the administration in charge felt this is a joke and a game and their one objective is to do the opposite of what will bring peace and progress to the nation while committing inhumane acts on scale with the worst of human history.

you obviously dont have a clue about reality or human history, FWIW.

what is this?

if you would simply qualify your statement i can either learn from your enlightened vantage or illustrate why youre wrong

okay, have you heard of the asian pacific war in ww2 with the japanese? have you heard of the bataan death march? when you say it's "inhumane acts on scale with the worst in human history", you basically trivialize every other tragedy in human history, like the holocaust, or turkish holocaust.

[Galapogos]

clicked the link, got distracted by this video:

http://www.videosift.com/video/Trium...-at-Comicon-08

I hate to contribute to thread derailment because it looks like you guys are winding up for a great discussion. However, best Triumph ever: http://video.google.com/videosearch?...s&sitesearch=#

"and which of the buttons calls your parents to pick you up?"

ahahahahaahahha!

[Jack Sawyer]

it's as if the administration in charge felt this is a joke and a game and their one objective is to do the opposite of what will bring peace and progress to the nation while committing inhumane acts on scale with the worst of human history.

you obviously dont have a clue about reality or human history, FWIW.

what is this?

if you would simply qualify your statement i can either learn from your enlightened vantage or illustrate why youre wrong

okay, have you heard of the asian pacific war in ww2 with the japanese? have you heard of the bataan death march? when you say it's "inhumane acts on scale with the worst in human history", you basically trivialize every other tragedy in human history, like the holocaust, or turkish holocaust.

Does this make it all better?




Just for kicks, go to google and put this in "japanese americans 1942"

[will641]

yeah i think that imprisoning the japanese americans was whack. i dont think anyone thinks it was justified, especially because they didnt imprison the germans or italians. HOWEVER, they were not inhumane camps. nobody died or starved to death. and also, it was your beloved liberals who were in charge then and ordered it.

[wufwugy]

will, thx for the response. im not going to provide one of my usual thorough replies because i really just dont feel good. i seem to have developed insomnia.

but i will say that i did not say 'on par', but on scale. i did not wish to give the impression that i did. however, this is something that is pretty much impossible to qualify and quantify since body count is the statistic that matters the most with regards to these tragedies but that doesnt make it synonymous with inhumanity.

in the realm of body count this war/occupation is nothing, sadly. almost 100k some sources say. ww2 was about 55mil. but when looking at just body count the rwandan genocide was a measly sub-1mil, yet i dont think anybody would ever say its not on par with the most inhumane campaigns in human history. same goes for spanish inquisition.

also, in many horrors of history, racking up deaths was actually pretty easy. things as simple as forced poor sanitation and famine. im in no way saying that murdering via those are any less than any other way, but trying to point out that its much more difficult for postmodern civilizations to rack up deaths than more medieval ones. this is due to political structures imo. like i dont think that its possible for the US to foster a leader who would engender results on par with hitler. global and US national politics are just different enough. i could be wrong about that, but its not an important issue.

if this doc is true, then basically what the campaign in iraq has done is plummet an entire country into anarchy and create an entire country of enemies with capabilities in terrorism.

now what would you say if as a direct result of the corrupt US campaign (which according to the video, like i said, the campaign has been waged as awfully as possible its as if it was all a sick joke) iraqi military soldiers turned islamic fundamentalist terrorists got ahold of a nuke and blasted DC? the result would be different, but the people behind it would stay the same. how do you qualify a greater inhumanity due to amounts of people affected and how?

it looks to me that the bush administration has done the absolute best job they possibly can to fuck things up. i find that an important factor with regards to inhumanity.

[will641]

i feel that you can disagree with this war all you want, say that we should never have been there in the first place, because thats debatable. you cant however try to tell me that this war is inhumane, yada yada. i mean come on. this is a war. in times of war, you dont go knock on the terrorists door and say, "excuse me mr. terrorist, if it wouldnt be too much trouble, could we like, look around your house to see if you have any nuclear plans lying around? if it helps we have a search warrant."

you are always going to have assholes committing atrocious crimes, and they get punished for it. very severely. the fact of the matter is that the US military has a great reputation for being civil. there are about 2-3 incidents in this war that were out of line: abu ghraib and the haditha thing. the abu ghraib thing was like w/e. they were idiots, and got punished. civilian deaths are low in this war, contrary to what some assholes will tell you.

also, what daven said about marines never getting prosecuted for rape is a straight up lie. This took me about 5 seconds to find on google.

[wufwugy]

my opinion has been referenced in facts illustrated by the film. whether or not those facts are actually facts is ultimately uncertain, like i opened my OP with. IF the film is true then pretty much all the details we've been given about the iraq occupation are wrong.

so essentially we're talking about two different things.

[wufwugy]

and fwiw, before i watched the film i disagreed with the campaign due to spending, but now its been made apparent that the main problem is the colossal dumbfucks in charge of the campaign.

i will need to research this issue more now. nothing more irritating than somebody who believes all information they get from a sole and not necessarily unbiased source

[will641]

there are numbers out there, so if you look hard enough you will find them.

[2_Thumbs_Up]

What about Iran?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7354M1QmGYQ

[will641]

What about Iran?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7354M1QmGYQ

hopefully israel attacks them so we dont have to.

[wufwugy]

we've eliminated iran's biggest enemy.

rp is so awesome. brings tears to my eyes