Game of Thrones TV Thread **HBO-Purists ONLY**

[boost]

People also seem to forget that the Martels have two young Lanisters as wards.

[Eric]

Yeah, Arya is cool and collected when she takes care of business.

[jackvance]

Maisie Williams is a great actress, pretty unique for someone her age.

[wufwugy]

Shae's a goner. I feel like Tywin or Cersei having her killed isn't their style, but something big has to happen where Tyrion gets in major shit over Shae. All this time I thought that Shae had to have some secret magic power or whatever, because her character was so worthless and pointless and idiotic that nothing made sense. Now I see she's a device for the sole purpose of bringing Tyrion down. Regardless, she is one of the worst characters in TV and needs to fucking die. For a brief moment I thought "maybe I'll just quit watching this whole fucking show on principle" during the stupid Shae scene. It's ironic that GRRM has written so many female characters so well, but then Shae ends up being nothing but the worst kind of bratty batty bitch stereotype

[d0zer]

That's ridiculous wuggy, tyrion and shae are going to live happily ever after 95% guaranteed.

[jackvance]

Don't blame GRRM, this actress can't manage to portray any genuine emotion. Contrast with Jeoffrey, a despicable role but at least he sells it. Makes me wonder if Shae was this awkward in the books also. I can't imagine that being the case.

[wufwugy]

The actress' portrayal is definitely atrocious. However, the writing for her character also sucks. She doesn't do anything other than yell at Tyrion for not fucking himself over to run away with her while he tries to keep her from being too loud and getting in even more trouble

Also I'm terribly unconvinced of Tyrion's love for her (or hers for him). The whole thing, from writers/directors to actors, has just been stupid. The sooner she dies, the better

[wufwugy]

On another note, Oberyn is awesome. You know he's gonna be special because he's a "second son". Regardless, everything about him is great. The new Daario is fine, but people hate him (just like the old Daario) because men loathe other men who act suave. Hound is still the best character and I'm not terribly excited about when Arya leaves him to go chase A Man whenever that happens. Part of me feels a Lannister will die this season, but not sure. Probably the only storyline I'm not interested in is Shae, but I fear there will be a serious lack of Blackfish this season. Oh, also not a fan of the Doucherhood Without Banners. Shit is way too Robin Hood. And the Night's Watch still sucks. Fuck self-righteous institutions and their stupid honor. Everything they call honor never actually is

[wufwugy]

According to how everything went down, it has to be Sansa. Which is awesome. I hope she's on the lam now, trying to sneak away. I remember back in s1 I thought she was going to marry him and either poison him or strangle him as he slept.

Maybe it wasn't her, but the signs do point towards her a lot more than anybody else

I know I picked a Lannister to die this season, but I must say I was surprised by this. I thought if Joff was one to die, it would be by Tyrion retaliating after he murdered Shae, but I didn't think much more about it because that path ultimately didn't make much sense anyways. His death shouldn't have been that hard to see, though, because of the Stannis leeches, which obviously worked with Robb

[boost]

I think you're wrong. Sansa was shock-faced.

It was Baelish. The chaotic state of things were settling down. He can't have that, now can he?

[bikes]

I've looked forward to this day for a long time.

[jackvance]

They sure drew the awkwardness out to the maximum possible with Joff talking but his death did surprise me. And the old woman did it, I'm positive. Right when Tyrion picks up the cup, she glances at him with this ominous vibe to it and you already feel from that moment something is going to happen. She knew the cup was poisoned, she did it.

Oberyn or Baelish are too obvious to have done it.

[SinkieCon]

Yes! Some glad it's back, been so long since it was last on

[wufwugy]

I think you're wrong. Sansa was shock-faced.

It was Baelish. The chaotic state of things were settling down. He can't have that, now can he?

I might agree, but my problem with it is that putting it in the pie is a logistical problem. Unless there is a custom for the king and only the king to eat pie for a couple minutes before anybody else does, many other bodies would drop. But they didn't. I'm sure Baelish doesn't have a problem with this, but I have a problem with the poison being in the pie if Joff was the only person to die. Perhaps in the books, many people died, maybe Margaery also died, because it only makes sense she would eat a bite briefly after Joff, but the show decided to make it just Joff who died

While it could be the pie, due to the lack of multiple deaths, I think it being the pie is a problem, so that makes me think it was in the cup. The best explanation for that by far is Sansa or something that was deliberately not shown. Sansa's "surprise" could also be exhilaration of it actually working. Her wanting to leave before it happened but after it would have been put in the cup is probably just a coincidence, but it could be a sign she did it. Dontas approaching her like that could be as well, but that could also be a part of Baelish's plan

Regardless, I now think we may end up finding out that it was Baelish or something we can't predict on the evidence. However, if it was Baelish and it was in the pie, there are other holes that make it not work like it realistically would

[wufwugy]

If it's a Tyrell, it's stupid. It's super not Oberyn, that's even stupider. There's an outside chance it was Tywin. He does have motive, but he also has anti-motive. He did once say he's going to get the Tyrells back, but this only kinda sorta weaksauces that. He also could have purpose to get Joff away for other reasons, but not doing so is still probably better

I just wonder if this will spell doom for Tyrion. I can't imagine GRRM would have killed him this early, but maybe. Somebody is probably going to die, but I imagine that can be avoided, since the only person who loved Joff was Cersei. Other than that, Tommen can be the new king, with Tywin as regent, and things would go on like normal. In that respect, it makes it being Littlefinger seem a little pointless. This shouldn't create much chaos at all, since Tywin was always the one with the meaningful allegiances. Come to think of it, if it's LF, his motive must have been to keep a royal baby from being made and keep the Tyrells out of things.

I guess it probably is LF and the poison was in the pie, but red herrings have been set up, and I never like those if they're not logistically sound

[wufwugy]

Speaking of Oberyn, WTF was up with his hand running over the candle fire? Did he flinch, did he not? Is he a dragon?

And what was that fat chick's name that Bolton came in with? Wyla? Like Ned's supposed fling? Did Ramsey call her mom?

[boost]

Nah.

Real world wedding tradition has the Bride and Groom always eating the first slice before anyone else eats. There is no stretch to assume that in GoT the same would be the case, and especially at the wedding of the king, you can assume he would be the first to eat. And even if his bride eats first, Marg dying would not have a dissimilar effect in regards to chaos. I don't know why you think several minutes is needed. If it was the pie, the poison was very fast acting. You're inventing holes that aren't there.

[jackvance]

It was pretty obvious that it was in the wine, why are you talking about the pie?

[wufwugy]

It is super acceptable for the bride and groom to get the first pieces long before others, but strange for just the king before the queen. If I'm writing this story and I put it in the pie, I'm also killing Margaery, because it took at least a minute for the poison to act, and it would be super normal for the bride to also get pie in that time. Not to mention that others had pie on their forks, moving towards their mouths. The hole is that this means that the queen was left out of the equation. Margaery not dying *can* be explained by Joffrey being an asshole and just scarfing down pie while even the bride chills. If that's the case, however, it creates a different hole in that nobody else, who had been served pie and would be expected to eat while Joff was munching and batting around Tyrion, died

Regardless, I'm now guessing it was Baelish, and I'm just going to accept the holes because they're not the most meaningful things. They only matter in an attempt to Sherlock Holmes it

[wufwugy]

I'm a little upset he's dead honestly. Joffrey's scenes were the best in the whole show. He was so arrogant and violent every scene was thick with tension over what he might do

[wufwugy]

Oh the point that Dontas whisks Sansa away immediately being a part of LF's plan making Tyrion look bad is very strong. Tyrion is married to her after all, and LF wants to be married to her. LF could easily know that Tyrion is likely to be a fall guy no matter how it goes down, and if Sansa is gone immediately after, it makes him look even more guilty

[boost]

The effects did not take minutes. You are wrong about this, and your whole argument rests on this assertion.

Furthermore, I already explained that if it was Baelish, then who died was not super important so long as it at least included Margery or Joffrey if not both-- and wedding custom dictates that this would be the case.

[wufwugy]

It was 50 seconds from bite to cough. I assumed it was closer to 1:20. I think what can explain why nobody else at the front tables ate was due to pausing to watch Joff harass Tyrion. He snatched the plate from Margaery as she tried to feed him the second bite. I think I was wrong, this does all make sense for letting Joffrey be the only death. Most weddings would involve Margaery taking a bite before feeding Joff the second, but it can easily be reasoned that this wouldn't be the case since Joffrey is Joffrey

[!Luck]

wtf is wrong with you people, how can you even postulate that it was the fucking cake. cup and it was either his wife or the grandmother. with grandmother being 9:1 favorite.

[wufwugy]

if it was the wine and wife or grandma, it means the drop was made off camera and in front of everybody. lazy for my tastes. if sansa did it, it means she needed to pick a cup up off the floor in a spot where briefly nobody could see, but if it was the wife or grandma, they never had that opportunity because the only window was very short while they were wheeling out the pie. plus the tyrells have the least to gain, unless there is some new strategy that hasn't been made apparent to the audience yet. the tyrells dont gain much by killing joffrey, but they could gain much by killing both joffrey and tywin if they also had some major secret backers

[d0zer]

So you want it to be sansa so it's "less obvious" or whatever when nothing about sansa's character suggests she could ever be part of such a plot? She's so passive and mousey and such a good pure girl or whatever the sansa theory makes no sense from a character development POV.

Also what luck said.

[wufwugy]

So you want it to be sansa so it's "less obvious" or whatever when nothing about sansa's character suggests she could ever be part of such a plot? She's so passive and mousey and such a good pure girl or whatever the sansa theory makes no sense from a character development POV.

Also what luck said.

I'm now sitting on the side that nobody has accurately guessed it, or at least explained it well enough. Even a theory that the poison was meant for Tywin instead of Joffrey has merit

About Sansa, it isn't in her character as we've seen it, but it is as plausible as can be with regards to an implied character arc. We are seeing her get harder and harder. I guarantee we're going to look back on Sansa and see that in the beginning she was as naive as can be, but by the end she became as grown up as can be

[d0zer]

maybe in the end, but we're not there yet. All the scenes where gramma peels back the layers of cuntiness on joff are wasted as strange misdirection otherwise.

[boost]

I'm with wuf in thinking that those who are confident are over-valuing their clues. As of right now, I think there are far to many unknowns and ambiguities to even say that it was the pie or the wine, much less who did it and who was involved.

[wufwugy]

maybe in the end, but we're not there yet. All the scenes where gramma peels back the layers of cuntiness on joff are wasted as strange misdirection otherwise.

those don't strike me so much as misdirection as the kind of thing that writers like to do (they're all English majors, after all). Writers adore things like symbolism and symmetry, especially in the elite media environment where single episodes are submitted for Emmys instead of single seasons. Basically, in an episode about the king dying, writers are apt to add a whole lot of subtlety about kings dying

To me, Pycelle being sent to the kitchen is plot misdirection, while Olenna saying stuff about killings at weddings is milieu setting and hidden nuggets for a rewatch

[!Luck]

reek is such an awesome char...nearly shat myself during the shaving scene.

[JL]

This seems like a good explanation of who did it.

edit: possible spoilers

http://imgur.com/gallery/2DtPH

[wufwugy]

there are no possible spoilers. only definite spoilers or not spoilers. which is that?

[Eric]

I was happy to see it and also surprised that it happened this soon. The only bad thing is that Arya didn't get to do it.

[JL]

there are no possible spoilers. only definite spoilers or not spoilers. which is that?

Well it's all just images from last night's episode, but I'm thinking that whoever did it might have read the book and known exactly what to look for.

I have not read the book (books?), so I have no idea. That's why I said possible spoilers.

[bikes]

[wufwugy]

i wouldnt click the link JL posted unless you wanna know who it is. it's basically bulletproof. im pretty sure it will get out and 2p2 will be discussing it too (they already are, partly)

it could be that bookreader found the right frames, but it could also just be by watching the frames closely, as all the details are right there

[wufwugy]

that's the risk run discussing a show like this. the bookreaders aren't the ones finding the spoilers, it's people watching it, finding all the details. just like the breaking bad ricin. how that happened would have surprised everybody if it wasn't for the investigative internet

[Renton]

the slide show is definitely a book reader

[wufwugy]

which means he's definitely a douchebag. non-bookreaders would have figured it out within a few days though

[Eric]

Yeah, some of my friends have read the books but most of them have been cool about not giving shit away.

[ChipEaterMan]

Spoiler: Show

Boobies to die for

[wufwugy]

you seriously just posted a spoiler tag without explaining what it's relating to and for whom it's a spoiler? why are you posting anything that's a spoiler in the first place?

[!Luck]

honestly, we should just avoid the this fucking topic completely.

mods,
you should delete everything to do with these potential spoilers, it's about as affective as the pull out method, eventually she gets you for 18 years. delete this shit!

[bikes]

i no has mod powers anymore to police teh thread =(

[d0zer]

you spoiler babies, it's just images from the last episode. Only a spoiler if you haven't seen the latest episode and then the rest of this page is a spoiler too.

[wufwugy]

i am about six million percent positive chippy came up with that joke all by himself

[jackvance]

It's only a spoiler if you haven't seen episode 2, didn't need spoiler tags.

[oskar]

Shae's a goner. I feel like Tywin or Cersei having her killed isn't their style, but something big has to happen where Tyrion gets in major shit over Shae. All this time I thought that Shae had to have some secret magic power or whatever, because her character was so worthless and pointless and idiotic that nothing made sense. Now I see she's a device for the sole purpose of bringing Tyrion down. Regardless, she is one of the worst characters in TV and needs to fucking die. For a brief moment I thought "maybe I'll just quit watching this whole fucking show on principle" during the stupid Shae scene. It's ironic that GRRM has written so many female characters so well, but then Shae ends up being nothing but the worst kind of bratty batty bitch stereotype

She's not half as bad as the son that killed the farmer's boy and whose story line they spent hours on last season without it going anywhere. And it's still continuing. I half expect him to just die from pneumonia without having any impact on the story going forward.
I am annoyed by most of the romance in the series. It's such an epic story, you're really not making it any better by punching it up with soft pornography and romantic comedy.

[wufwugy]

I'd spend an hour in a bouncy gym with Fat Pie before five seconds talking to Shae's stupid face

Ditto on the romance sucking. Most of it isn't that good. Easily the worst part of the show. Ygritte and Jon Snow was not bad, and if Sam and Gilly was ever pursued I suspect it would be okay. But all the others suck. Jorah's supposed love for Dany is nut low. Maybe that dynamic existed in the books, but it absolutely does not in the show. Robb and Talisa was a frog fart. Jaime and Cersei is boring. Tyrion and Shae is daytime soap

Ruffle me feathers, perhaps GoT writers doth not write love stories so well

[boost]

you spoiler babies, it's just images from the last episode. Only a spoiler if you haven't seen the latest episode and then the rest of this page is a spoiler too.

It's only a spoiler if you haven't seen episode 2, didn't need spoiler tags.

Nuance: you are not well versed in it.

[d0zer]

Nuance: you are not well versed in it.

I am intentionally caustic as I have sociopathic tendencies

[Eric]

Hopefully Sunday's episode will have more info about who did it. Otherwise I might have to give into temptation and look at the slides.

[wufwugy]

I can't imagine it being kept much of a secret for longer than one or two eps.

[jackvance]

As great as their intrigue is that's how bad GoT handles its romance. Tyrion + Shae = cringe and I don't buy it from either of them. There's I guess Jamie and Cersei romance?

Robb and Talisa was mostly just weird. They had a moment with Talisa lying in her bare ass for 10 minutes which did manage to show her as being desirable but other than that she just seemed to cause problems while bringing nothing to the table herself. Jon and Ygritte, I could buy it from her side but not from his. Which in a way could classify as accurate acting because he betrayed her the first chance he got but it doesn't make for good romance. Ned Stark and Catelyn seemed like a great couple though.

My guess is that all the drama and perversions don't leave room for any genuine romance, romance in GoT is just an device to move the plot forward. That's why it can't convince.

[Eric]

GoT is way different than something like The Hobbit where those little guys go through all kinds of danger without getting killed.

[BennyLaRue]

They had a moment with Talisa lying in her bare ass for 10 minutes which did manage to show her as being desirable

I watch that show and running through my mind is how these women must have terribly smelly cooch.

(Not to be sexist, I'm sure the guys are way worse. I just try not to think about fantasy realm ball sweat much.)

[oskar]

When did the Christian Bale as Batman voice become the pinnacle of acting?

[boost]

Ha, LF isn't that bad. I kinda like it actually. At least with him it seems to make sense-- when he is playing a humble small council member in the service of the king, his demeanor is brighter, but when he's being a straight up super villain and knows he can show his colors, he sounds downright evil. Carcetti gets a lot of hate, but I think he's doing a superb job.

[Renton]

As a bookreader, IMO Carcetti embodies Littlefinger from the books better than almost any of the other actors.

[boost]

Yeah, he is definitely the most underrated actor on the show.

[wufwugy]

As a bookreader, IMO Carcetti embodies Littlefinger from the books better than almost any of the other actors.

Really? I was gonna say that I would love him if it wasn't for that awful speaking style


Anyways, my guess from like a week ago was that we'd find that LF was behind Dontas taking Sansa away, which was a double cross of his partner(s), who wanted Sansa to be patsy. I think Tywin may have been involved too. He had major reason to get rid of Teh Joff so Tommen could replace him.

[wufwugy]

Wait, I decided I'm not picking Littlefinger to have betrayed his partner(s). I think he legit wants vengeance on the murderers of Catelyn Stark. So I think this is part of a major power play to topple the Lannister hold on the throne

[wufwugy]

we desperately need an oberyn vs gregor clegane fight to the death

[wufwugy]

Something we didn't catch but I'm sure was clear in the books: nobody liked Joffrey. What I mean is that he was choking, and nobody was helping. It took Olenna shouting "help your king!" for anybody to even do anything. If it wasn't for Cersei and Jaime, the entire wedding crowd would likely have just sat there watching him bleed out

I think this suggests that the consequences of the assassination are going to be swept under the rug. I think the 3 judges will unanimously vote that Tyrion didn't have anything to do with it. This may be a situation where everybody knew Teh Joff was a cunt and are happy to just move on

[wufwugy]

would be sick cool if trial by combat came back (why not?). tyrion picks oberyn, cersei picks the mountain. oberyn kills two birds with one stone

[wufwugy]

scene at craster's probably most unsettling of the show. that dude is the spitting image of willem dafoe, who is the spitting image of evil

figured it wouldn't take long to reveal olenna pulled the jewel and poisoned the joff. doesn't seem like tywin is involved though.

oathkeeper is fantastic

the beginning may have foreshadowed dany becoming "a master" and grey worm turning on her

inside boob has amazing lips

let's hope this is the end of the repetitive dany stuff. something different needs to happen.

i look forward to some converging storylines. anything that can keep it from bouncing all over the place

[wufwugy]

maybe tywin is still involved, but that means something has to give with littlefinger i.e. one party in the conspiracy is doing something another party doesn't know

[boost]

I think Tywin's badassery has people over estimating his ability to play the game. Obviously he is a grand master, but he isn't the only one, and if he's ahead of his peers, it's not by much.

An interesting thing I picked up on when looking back: Baelish is presented to us as essentially being on the same level as Varys, Pycelle, and some other lesser power players-- but in fact, while Varys isn't a chump and Pycelle plays his own special sort of superb game, Baelish moved up above them, and this was signified in his chaos is a ladder speech to Varys. Now he's playing in Tywin and Olenna's league, even though neither of them are likely to realize it.

[wufwugy]

I'm picking Oathkeeper to fall into Hound's hands and he kills loads of walkers with it. For a spell, it'll be the only Valyrian sword in the North. Maybe Brienne will kill some walkers, but I think Hound's role in the overall story is much bigger than hers, and he'll eventually fight on the side of the LoL, which means shanking loads of walkers

There's a >0 chance that Bran dreams about Bolton's guy trying to kill him and Jon. Obviously neither of them will die

An Oberyn vs Mountain duel has to come, and I don't see how Mountain survives. Oberyn is getting way too much development and Mountain too little

[boost]

Dragon's glass (Obsidian) kills walkers, not Valyrian steel. Also, I'm not 100% on it, but I believe Jon's sword is Valyrian steel as well.

[wufwugy]

All this time I thought they were the same. I suspect Valyrian steel has some special power though. If it doesn't, then the distinction is a huge waste since it seems to be so important. Maybe it has the same power as obsidian as well as more

[boost]

Nah, not even.

It makes the world cool. It embodies the RPG idea of rare/unique items, as well as offering a tremendous feeling of authenticity to a world which we only see a few years of, but has a history dating back hundreds or thousands of years. We get a reference point to our own history, in which there have been regional "dark ages" and renaissances. Valyrian steel has plenty going on without needing some yet to be revealed magical attribute.

I'm not ruling it out, but it's just not needed. As it stands, Valyrian steel in Game of Thrones is already better integrated and more useful from a narrative perspective than light sabers are in Star Wars.

[wufwugy]

Conceptually I think that can work, but that doesn't seem to be how the GoT story is told. I think the concept works better without multiple reference points. What I mean is along the lines of how it isn't just "Valyrian steel", but that Valyria is the source of dragons and Danaerys' heritage and likely her resistance to fire. I think the author intends there to be more to each of the lore bits that are discussed, especially the ones that make it into the show

[wufwugy]

I'm a little upset that it looks like Bran won't be going any further north. I thought the signs were pointing towards something creepy cool like his dreams being influenced by the Old Gods, who are also the walkers, and that the chief walker/god was beckoning him for a meeting in the depths of walker territory, where we would glimpse into mysteries of walker-dom. There's a lot of awesome stuff that can't be done without Bran getting deep into what it means to be a walker