Argument Against Lottery

[spoonitnow]

some dickhead was giving me some shit about the north carolina lottery and how poker was "just as much gambling as the lottery" or some stupid shit so i was like ok let's play a game and he's like ok what

i said let's flip a coin. if it's heads, i don't give you shit and if it's tails you give me $100

he's like wtf

then i explained that game has better EV than any of the nc lottery games

i'm bored

edit: but i really like my avatar

[16710Pepsi]

some dickhead was giving me some shit about the north carolina lottery and how poker was "just as much gambling as the lottery" or some stupid shit so i was like ok let's play a game and he's like ok what

i said let's flip a coin. if it's heads, i don't give you shit and if it's tails you give me $100

he's like wtf

then i explained that game has better EV than any of the nc lottery games
which can actually mathematically proven ... I know you do know that

i'm bored

edit: but i really like my avatar
actually was a lil afraid that you may not

Plus one of the main variables that makes poker exploitable (not greatly phrased, but you get what I mean) is the human factor - one does actually play human opponents and doesn't solely have to rely on chance.
One could also take into consideration that there are actually (hold)cards that may be superior to others, which is not the case in any lotterie, since all numbers have the same value, while a pair of Kings is always better than a pair of Jacks - which in the lotterie it doesnt matter what 6 numbers one hits as long as one does hit them.

good day
timo

[kevster]

In the UK it's £1 to play and people play because of the chance to win millions even though the odds of winning the jackpot is close 14 million to 1 against.

Even the smaller prizes are a joke though. The smallest payout is £10 and the chances of winning this are 56 to 1 against. Pathetic. If poker offered us these sort of returns we'd never play because it's more insanity than gambling.

Poker & Lottery aren't really comparable beasts though. Poker has too many variables.

[biondino]

But we know this, right? We have aflutter on the lottery because the fun of anticipation alone is worth £1, and everyone enjoys discussing what the6y'd do if they won £10,000,000. I don't have a problem with that.

Poker can, of course, be far less +EV than the lottery if you happen to be fuckin' hopeless at it

[WillburForce]

my girlfriends parents got 5 numbers (out of 6) on the national lottery. They only won £1,500. How shite is that?

i still do it every week with a "syndicate" at work. I recon if we won the jackpot the first person in that morning(ie ME) would do a runner with the ticket...........

[lolzzz_321]

THE LOTTERY = TAX ON STUPIDITY

Am I right?

[WillburForce]

The lottery is a good thing here (bar the idiots who buy 50 odd tickets, thinking they're maximising their chances...)

First off, its a bit of fun and you could win millions for £1.
Secondly most of the money goes to charities. My local Sunday footie team got "lottery funding". We had new changing rooms built, a decent pitch laid and a bar built! Sweet as.

They also give millions to proper charities.

For £1 a week i think its great. No one really expects to win, though as Billy Connoly says "It could be you!"

[lolzzz_321]

In Texas like 50% of the lotto goes to government, supposed to be for education, weeeeeeeeee

[WillburForce]

I'd imagine they'd need a lot more than lottery funding to educate people in Texas

[lolzzz_321]

no joke, I'm pretty sure I read something happened and the legislature just put it in the general coffers though

[ChrisBCritter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZovM93QZRKo

[spoonitnow]

nah poker and lottery are both OMFGGAMBLING YOU'RE GOING TO HELL DIE DIE DIE

ok well i live in the heart of the bible belt so maybe it's just me

[Jack Sawyer]

hey, we got jackpot tables

[UG]

but that system is flawed seeing as how they only let one person win the jackpot.......

[bigspenda73]

Sigh, if poker was more taxable the government wouldnt have any problems with us playing anywhere online at anytime. Since they cannot profit enough off of us they want to shut it down, plain and simple. Like you said, the lottery is much more of a gamble, but it pays for education, highway construction, government, etc...

[Bmxicle]

martingaling 5 card draw coinflips is prolly about the same as the lottery....fck.

[UG]

Sigh, if poker was more taxable the government wouldnt have any problems with us playing anywhere online at anytime. Since they cannot profit enough off of us they want to shut it down, plain and simple. Like you said, the lottery is much more of a gamble, but it pays for education, highway construction, government, etc...

Poker will be more taxable in the future here in the United States. Within the next two or three years I'm thinking we'll see Harrahs.com, wynn.com, etc as poker rooms.

It wasn't a matter of "ohh poker is bad we shouldn't allow it." Instead the government realized "holy shit these people are sending money through rake to places not in the United States, we need to stop it so we can figure out how to keep that money in-house in the future."

[UG]

btw: my wife and I buy a lottery ticket (or two) every time the jackpot gets above 200 million or so. GO BIG OR GO HOME I SAY.

[Reidak]

I think this is what the debate boils down to; people who think lotteries are stupid are taking the term EV way too literally. Expected value is not the same as realized value. People play lotteries because, for a couple bucks a week, they get a legit shot at winning a shitload of cash. Everyone knows that you are supposed to lose. However, some people win. And you just hope that you get to be one of those people.

Ill throw in an example from my life. My mom had a couple miscarriages before having me. When I was born, I was extremely premature. 1 pound, 10 ounces; born nearly 3 months premature (6 months approx). Remember that this was back in '89, so today the survival rate is probably much higher. Anyways the doctors told my mom, based upon their knowledge and her history; to her face "your child will probably die". Exact words. After a successful birth, there was concern about my physical and mental development. I was incubated for 3.5 months. My mom held me for a few minutes before I was put into the incubator.

^^ lost train of thought. damn. didnt want to delete my story because it took time to write.

but yeah. for the lottery, a very marginal amount of money for the chance to strike it rich; theres no wonder why so many people play.

[UG]

I think this is what the debate boils down to; people who think lotteries are stupid are taking the term EV way too literally. Expected value is not the same as realized value. People play lotteries because, for a couple bucks a week, they get a legit shot at winning a shitload of cash. Everyone knows that you are supposed to lose. However, some people win. And you just hope that you get to be one of those people.

Ill throw in an example from my life. My mom had a couple miscarriages before having me. When I was born, I was extremely premature. 1 pound, 10 ounces; born nearly 3 months premature (6 months approx). Remember that this was back in '89, so today the survival rate is probably much higher. Anyways the doctors told my mom, based upon their knowledge and her history; to her face "your child will probably die". Exact words. After a successful birth, there was concern about my physical and mental development. I was incubated for 3.5 months. My mom held me for a few minutes before I was put into the incubator.

^^ lost train of thought. damn. didnt want to delete my story because it took time to write.

but yeah. for the lottery, a very marginal amount of money for the chance to strike it rich; theres no wonder why so many people play.

I don't know if you meant to do that or not, but it made me lol either way.

[bigspenda73]

Sigh, if poker was more taxable the government wouldnt have any problems with us playing anywhere online at anytime. Since they cannot profit enough off of us they want to shut it down, plain and simple. Like you said, the lottery is much more of a gamble, but it pays for education, highway construction, government, etc...

Poker will be more taxable in the future here in the United States. Within the next two or three years I'm thinking we'll see Harrahs.com, wynn.com, etc as poker rooms.

It wasn't a matter of "ohh poker is bad we shouldn't allow it." Instead the government realized "holy shit these people are sending money through rake to places not in the United States, we need to stop it so we can figure out how to keep that money in-house in the future."

exactly

[Reidak]

UG knows

[DaNutsInYoEye]

IMO opinion lotteries are nothing more than a tax on the people that use considerably more of public resources than they contribute via traditional taxes

[boost]

the lottery has its merits. If you have any skill at managing money, you can live forever on even a smaller jackpot. Will you really ever miss 1$ a week, 4$ a month, 56$ a year, I mean really? Also as (I think) bode touched on, there is entertainment value. If you daydream about your winnings for 5 minutes, this is a way better entertainment value than buying cd, or going out to see a movie.

[jyms]

The biggest problem with lotteries are not with the people that can afford $3 or $4 a week or play the "Go big or go home" lotteries, it's the low income or even government funded incomes that are spending a much greater percentage of their finances on tickets, scratch and wins and bingo's. If your on assistance or gov. pension you are spending far more money than you can reasonable afford on tickets. I would hazard a guess, that they spend more money than you or I do on a per month basis, I wouldn't even want to guess how much of a percentage of their money is spent on them. I can assure you, stand outside any corner store and watch who is buying the tickets. It's not the guy in the suit pulling up in the new SUV, to get a paper and a rockstar, it's the old lady with the shopping cart that lives in the dingy apoartment complex around the back.

[biondino]

1$ a week, 4$ a month, 56$ a year

Woah, did they change the length of the year without telling me? What's the new month called?

[boost]

1$ a week, 4$ a month, 56$ a year

Woah, did they change the length of the year without telling me? What's the new month called?

I was drunk as shit, sue me.

[spoonitnow]

The biggest problem with lotteries are not with the people that can afford $3 or $4 a week or play the "Go big or go home" lotteries, it's the low income or even government funded incomes that are spending a much greater percentage of their finances on tickets, scratch and wins and bingo's. If your on assistance or gov. pension you are spending far more money than you can reasonable afford on tickets. I would hazard a guess, that they spend more money than you or I do on a per month basis, I wouldn't even want to guess how much of a percentage of their money is spent on them. I can assure you, stand outside any corner store and watch who is buying the tickets. It's not the guy in the suit pulling up in the new SUV, to get a paper and a rockstar, it's the old lady with the shopping cart that lives in the dingy apoartment complex around the back.

I'd fuck your avatar if she has a penis.

If she has a vagina then I'd double bag her.

[salsa4ever]

I don't need the lottery to give me something to dream about, 'cos I have plenty of material for daydreaming.

But while I don't participate, I wouldn't think of someone as stupid if they played. I mean, going to the movies is -EV, and playing Dance Revolution is majorly -EV... as long as the utility you derive is greater than the EV expended, then you're not being stupid. You are in fact being very rational. Simply that lottery tickets "cost" you less than the purchase price, whereas a movie ticket costs it's price.

Heck, I think scratch tickets are fun. If I walk past a newsagent and decide to purchase one for $2 then it only actually "costs" me $1, and I get more happyness out of that $1 as I could with an alternate expenditure of $1 (like buying an unhealthy candy bar and consuming it), I don't see a problem.

In response to TJ, if a person does not derive more pleasure from participating in lottery than the -EV cost, then they are acting irrationally. Which is a nice way of saying "stupid". If they choose to be stupid with their money, more power to them. They certainly don't get my sympathies

[spoonitnow]

I don't need the lottery to give me something to dream about, 'cos I have plenty of material for daydreaming.

But while I don't participate, I wouldn't think of someone as stupid if they played. I mean, going to the movies is -EV, and playing Dance Revolution is majorly -EV... as long as the utility you derive is greater than the EV expended, then you're not being stupid. You are in fact being very rational. Simply that lottery tickets "cost" you less than the purchase price, whereas a movie ticket costs it's price.

Heck, I think scratch tickets are fun. If I walk past a newsagent and decide to purchase one for $2 then it only actually "costs" me $1, and I get more happyness out of that $1 as I could with an alternate expenditure of $1 (like buying an unhealthy candy bar and consuming it), I don't see a problem.

In response to TJ, if a person does not derive more pleasure from participating in lottery than the -EV cost, then they are acting irrationally. Which is a nice way of saying "stupid". If they choose to be stupid with their money, more power to them. They certainly don't get my sympathies

wtf is -EV about ddr

[Lukie]

The lottery makes the government money. The lottery will continue to exist and be played. It really is that simple.

[Lukie]

the lottery has its merits. If you have any skill at managing money, you can live forever on even a smaller jackpot. Will you really ever miss 1$ a week, 4$ a month, 56$ a year, I mean really? Also as (I think) bode touched on, there is entertainment value. If you daydream about your winnings for 5 minutes, this is a way better entertainment value than buying cd, or going out to see a movie.

eh, maybe. probably. not the point. there are actually 52 weeks (and one, sometimes 2, days) in a year. proof. for some people. debatable although i disagree.

the 'will you ever miss $xx per ____' argument is really, really, really bad. I'll do my best to explain.. even though you might not 'miss' that first dollar and you potentially could win millions, the odds are so fantastically remote that you are still getting WAY the worst of it. Even if it was a 0EV game, and it's not even close--especially considering taxes, that FIRST dollar (that you spent) is worth WAY MORE (relatively) to you than the LAST dollar (that you won from the prize). Decreasing marginal utility. Now if you can convince yourself (or have already been convinced) with the whole, you'll never miss $1 but you could win millions argument, and that makes you happy, that is very valid reason to play. Which brings me to my next point...

the only real reason to play the lottery is if it makes you happy. as i said before, it won't go away in our lifetimes because it makes the gov't money.

[TylerK]

economic utility is important

[ensign_lee]

economic utility is important

[Fnord]

THE LOTTERY = TAX ON STUPIDITY