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What to do when a non fish chases a flush

  
 
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Irisheyes
Old 06-30-2006, 01:19 PM     Post subject: What to do when a non fish chases a flush #1 (permalink)  
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This guy is 23/11/highly aggro. The main point is he's not your average flush chaser. So should I call here on the river?

***** Hand History for Game 4624264196 *****
$200 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, June 30, 09:03:44 ET 2006
Table Table 109657 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: Halibut555 ( $201.60 )
Seat 3: joooocs ( $440.92 )
Seat 5: Captain54173 ( $291.86 )
Seat 6: Sleepy1980 ( $193 )
Seat 1: lolYouFoldEZ ( $200 )
joooocs posts small blind [$1].
Captain54173 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to lolYouFoldEZ [ Th 8h ]
Sleepy1980 folds.
lolYouFoldEZ raises [$8].
Halibut555 folds.
joooocs calls [$7].
Captain54173 folds.
Pot: $16
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3d, 5s, 8s ]
joooocs checks.
lolYouFoldEZ bets [$15].
easydachs has joined the table.
joooocs calls [$15].
Pot: $36
** Dealing Turn ** [ 2d ]
joooocs checks.
lolYouFoldEZ bets [$30].
joooocs calls [$30].
Pot: $96
** Dealing River ** [ 2s ]
joooocs bets [$35].
lolYouFoldEZ ???
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Jay67s
Old 06-30-2006, 03:22 PM #2 (permalink)  
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could be a slow played set, or he missed and is trying to buy it with the scare card on the river.

You are putting alot of money in the pot with TPWK.

I probably fold, but I don't play 6 max
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johnny_fish
Old 06-30-2006, 04:10 PM #3 (permalink)  
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67 could play this way, his bet seems a bit low for a bluff though..

He could also have some extra outs with his FD (overcard, pair, gutshot).

I usually check the turn btw, not sure if that's ok or not.. I don't mind a free river card to control the potsize.
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alias2211
Old 06-30-2006, 05:04 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_fish
I usually check the turn btw, not sure if that's ok or not.. I don't mind a free river card to control the potsize.
yes in position with your holdings here against a bigger stack, i prob take this line too. i just don't want to play a big pot here w/ 10-8 and no draw to speak of, checking turn helps that. if you had TP and some sort of draw your self then the turn bet is better.
In answer to your question... it depends...
alias2211.com poker
 
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ihategnomes
Old 06-30-2006, 05:41 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
checking turn helps that. if you had TP and some sort of draw your self then the turn bet is better.
Wouldnt it be worse then? If you just have top pair and get raised on the turn you can safely dump. If you had TP+FD and you got re-raised hard you would have just messed up by betting and not checking the turn.
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gabe
Old 06-30-2006, 05:48 PM #6 (permalink)  
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fold, too many mediocre hands do this that you can't beat i think
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r8ed
Old 06-30-2006, 05:52 PM #7 (permalink)  

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67s or the likes makes sense. I think he hit his flush but is scared of a boat so he makes a 1/3 pot bet. He can safely fold if you raise big. He figures two pair may call a small bet. So, it's not a bad bet by him. You could get him to fold if you jack it up but I don't think it's worth it especially with the slightest chance he has a boat. I hate folding here but calling sucks too. Since you beat few hands - fold.
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Irisheyes
Old 06-30-2006, 06:02 PM #8 (permalink)  
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In general though? Say I had JJ in the same position?
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gabe
Old 06-30-2006, 06:20 PM #9 (permalink)  
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i think JJ is the least you can call with. he is definitely raising QQ+ preflop, but not everyone will reraise 99/TT/JJ out of position (although they usually should be).
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r8ed
Old 06-30-2006, 07:09 PM #10 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
i think JJ is the least you can call with. he is definitely raising QQ+ preflop, but not everyone will reraise 99/TT/JJ out of position (although they usually should be).
Gabe - when you reraise 99+ preflop OOP are you cbettting 80%+ of the time regardless? What percent of the pot are you betting? I only see people exclusively reraising AA/KK/QQ/AK and nothing else.
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gabe
Old 06-30-2006, 07:29 PM #11 (permalink)  
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i reraise it against people who have a large opening range in late position.

hard to say the % of cbetting after reraising, but probably around 80%

% of pot bet depends on stacks, flop, and other player
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Miffed22001
Old 06-30-2006, 08:29 PM #12 (permalink)  
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potted the turn with tpwk, yukky.

Quote:
Gabe - when you reraise 99+ preflop OOP are you cbettting 80%+ of the time regardless? What percent of the pot are you betting? I only see people exclusively reraising AA/KK/QQ/AK and nothing else
One of the most useable lines in small to medium stakes poker, particualrly 6max.
 
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aislephive
Old 06-30-2006, 08:33 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Tough spot, you're getting around 4-1 on a call, but our kicker sucks here. I'd fold though most likely since a lot of hands beat us other than flushes, like small overpairs, straights, 8's with a better kicker, etc. I'd be calling this with 99 or better though.
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Miffed22001
Old 06-30-2006, 08:41 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Tough spot, you're getting around 4-1 on a call, but our kicker sucks here. I'd fold though most likely since a lot of hands beat us other than flushes, like small overpairs, straights, 8's with a better kicker, etc. I'd be calling this with 99 or better though.
i agree with this, i just cant get over potting the turn with tpwk on a drawing board. No neeeed imo.
 
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aislephive
Old 06-30-2006, 08:46 PM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Quote:
Originally Posted by aislephive
Tough spot, you're getting around 4-1 on a call, but our kicker sucks here. I'd fold though most likely since a lot of hands beat us other than flushes, like small overpairs, straights, 8's with a better kicker, etc. I'd be calling this with 99 or better though.
i agree with this, i just cant get over potting the turn with tpwk on a drawing board. No neeeed imo.
His math was off, the pot was $46 or so on the turn. He only bet about 2/3 the pot. I agree about not potting it, but there's nothing wrong with betting the turn here at all with how drawy it is. It's a standard bet/fold to a raise spot. And if he calls and leads the river it is rarely a bluff so we can safely fold (depending on bet-size and the river card of course). Usually the turn bet gets us a free showdown while having charged the million draws.
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gabe
Old 06-30-2006, 10:33 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
potted the turn with tpwk, yukky.
not really...... betting turn here is fine
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dsaxton
Old 06-30-2006, 10:39 PM #17 (permalink)  
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Looks like a super easy fold.
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Miffed22001
Old 07-01-2006, 12:00 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Miffed22001 wrote:
potted the turn with tpwk, yukky.


not really...... betting turn here is fine
It was actually betting but the amount considering what may be calling us down here and the fact you get to see a fair number of c/r's here from aggro/semi-good opps.
I agree with betting, just 2/3rds is a lot with tp/wk when you assume opp is chasing.
 
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gabe
Old 07-01-2006, 12:08 AM #19 (permalink)  
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people never c/r a pot sized bet with a hand that doesn't beat us.

good players would hardly ever c/r any good sized bet on the turn given the board texture
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Irisheyes
Old 07-01-2006, 01:30 AM #20 (permalink)  
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What if I told you I was raising the shit out of the blinds every orbit?

I when I bet the turn I was assuming about 30%ish that the opp was pissed with my raising. I think.
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