two really tough river spots

ill give more reads as needed, but man oh man were these gross


***** Hand History for Game 22177851628 ***** (Full Tilt)
$5000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, July 08, 07:51:04 ET 2010
Table Toast (heads up) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce1234 ( $7718.25 USD )
Seat 2: Snygaard ( $9557.50 USD )
Snygaard posts small blind [$25.00 USD].
Sauce1234 posts big blind [$50.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sauce1234 [ As 6h ]
Snygaard raises [$100.00 USD]
Sauce1234 calls [$75.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, Th, 6s ]
Sauce1234 checks
Snygaard checks
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ks ]
Sauce1234 bets [$150.00 USD]
Snygaard calls [$150.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 8d ]
Sauce1234 checks
Snygaard bets [$425.00 USD]
Sauce1234 raises [$1621.00 USD]
Snygaard raises [$8857.50 USD]


***** Hand History for Game 46491914861 ***** (Poker Stars)
$5000.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, July 08, 03:53:05 ET 2010
Table Angetenar (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ( $22039.25 USD )
Seat 4: x JD KILLERx ( $7370.00 USD )
Sauce123 posts small blind [$25.00 USD].
x JD KILLERx posts big blind [$50.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Sauce123 [ Js 8s ]
Sauce123 raises [$75.00 USD]
x JD KILLERx calls [$50.00 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9s, 3d, As ]
x JD KILLERx checks
Sauce123 bets [$150.00 USD]
x JD KILLERx raises [$600.00 USD]
Sauce123 calls [$450.00 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Jc ]
x JD KILLERx bets [$1250.00 USD]
Sauce123 calls [$1250.00 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
x JD KILLERx checks
Sauce123 bets [$2460.00 USD]
x JD KILLERx raises [$5420.00 USD]

Hand 1: I have to say fold, I don't think he is going to try to rep one single hand. Although its pretty absurd to fold one of the best hands in your range.

Hand 2: I'd fold here as well, I think this is a lot easier than hand 1, because he can have two hands!

hes also repping TTT and occasionally KKK

I would usually choose different lines in both hands. As played I would call both.

his cbet frequency seems relevant for hand one

hand 2: is it even remotely possible that river is a check? Seems like a lot of players wouldn't have a c/c range here.

Originally Posted by Renton

his cbet frequency seems relevant for hand one

hand 2: is it even remotely possible that river is a check? Seems like a lot of players wouldn't have a c/c range here.

its very possible and it was really close in this hand and maybe i should have checked. one of my leaks is def vbetting too often.

Originally Posted by Renton

his cbet frequency seems relevant for hand one

hand 2: is it even remotely possible that river is a check? Seems like a lot of players wouldn't have a c/c range here.

I don't think its a check, mostly because I don't think many players get to the river with a FD on this particular board. So most of hero's range here are probably hands like AK/AQ and stuff which would be checking behind.

Because of that I think him going for a river c/r is kind of odd. The only thing that makes sense is him checking and expecting you to turn a hand into a bluff on this card or something.

(edit: looking at the board again, I change my mind. That particular turn card brings lots of combos to fd's, KQss, QJss, JTss, QTss, 78ss, that will likely get to the river)

griffey- not getting to the river or all in somehow with a FD on that board is gonna be bad against all but the nittiest nittiest nit nits

Originally Posted by sauce123

griffey- not getting to the river or all in somehow with a FD on that board is gonna be bad against all but the nittiest nittiest nit nits

I'm not a HU player at all, so maybe this could be the difference.

If we have JTss or something here, and the turn is some brick (non jack) and river bricks and he checks to us. Are we jamming river? I feel like we don't have many credible hands here that wouldn't have 3bet/raised on an earlier street.

Are you jamming AQ to the same line if he checks blank riv?

Originally Posted by griffey24

I'm not a HU player at all, so maybe this could be the difference.

If we have JTss or something here, and the turn is some brick (non jack) and river bricks and he checks to us. Are we jamming river? I feel like we don't have many credible hands here that wouldn't have 3bet/raised on an earlier street.

Are you jamming AQ to the same line if he checks blank riv?

well we certainly wouldnt jam JTss most of the time on the river after a A93ss flop, mostly because we expect him to have some gutters which we beat at SD and a lot of bluffs will contain combos like 87 in them.

basically there is a very very specific type of opp against whom we want to take a bet/call flop, fold turn UI line. he has to be tight oop, tight with flop CR and tight with turn leads as well as able to make reasonable folds on the river when we hit. this is obv possible, but its a tiny subset of villains, and even if the villain is in this subset he has to have frequencies such that he CR rarely or else we are going to want to check back our hand in order to see two streets

this concept is actually more relevant in 6max or FR because ranges are tighter. if you are in the business of bet/calling flops and folding turn UI with hands like 8 and 9 out draws you need to start checking them back at least some of the time