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griffey24
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07-05-2007, 03:56 PM
Post subject: Trip Q's.. facing heat in limped pot
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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-villain in this hand is overall solid, haven't seen him get out of line yet
-he is running at 23/18/3ish
Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
5 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $93
CO: $340.65
Button: $111.20
SB: $322.55
Hero: $200.75
Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with  
UTG folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.
Flop:    ($8, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $8, 2 folds, SB calls.
Turn:  ($24, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $16, SB raises to $49, Hero calls. <-- how is this call? should I just push/fold?
River:  ($122, 2 players)
SB bets $142, Hero ??
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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My range for villian here is AhXh, 22, 44, As2s, 77-TT. I'm weighting towards the higher end of his possible range, as it was limped pre and he still calls on that flop, and then check raises the turn. He could have a hand like Q9/QT, maybe even KQ, he seems like a standard TAG, I doubt he'd raise KQo in the SB with 3 limpers.
I'd say flatcall, the chance you're up against a boat is realistic based on villians strong line on two streets, there's a lot of hands you're beating here and a lot of hands that are beating you. I think this is a standard WA/WB, and you lose too much money when you're behind to raise profitably against calling hands you beat. Ah3h gets paid.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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I fold. Trips in a limped pot with a mediocre kicker is not my friend.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
I fold. Trips in a limped pot with a mediocre kicker is not my friend.
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So you're putting villian on Q2,Q4,Q5,KQ,AQ,22,44,55,A3 enough to ignore the fact that this might be a missed flush draw? Or even something like 2pair Q's and 9's, Q's and T's, something like A2/A4 for Q's and 2's or 4's? Maybe even as low as Q's and 6's.
If villian realizes your call of his check raise on the turn means you have a Q, he's going to do this with almost any holding that he checkraised with on the turn to see where he's at, because you're likely to fold a Q with a bad kicker on the river if you don't fill up. Hero has to be ahead often enough to call here.
Option 2 is he's value betting because he's got you beat and he knows a Q is almost impossible to fold with this board texture. How do we go about determining if we're ahead often enough to call?
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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It's situations like this that always have me pulling my hair out, I know I'm ahead a lot of the time, I know I'm crushed some of the time, and villian would make the same play regardless of who had who crushed to take control of the river action.
A good question to ask ourselves here is "Does my flatcall on the turn smell more like a naked set of Queens, or a boat." I think villian is probably putting you on a boat because you almost have to reraise with a set of queens with two flush draws on the board, and a weak flop line by villian. If you believe that villian thinks you have a boat, and is still leading into you on the river , it would seem like an autofold.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Spades is possible, but I'm not sure if he thinks you're capable of folding three Queens.. Add to that that you could have 22, I can't see him bluffing much here.. Which makes it a fold.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
I fold. Trips in a limped pot with a mediocre kicker is not my friend.
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Do you fold on the turn or on the river?
If you fold the river, whats the biggest bet you'd let yourself call in this spot?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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raise preflop
as played fold river
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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crazycrazy
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 240
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guys,
23/18/3ish means vpip/flops/pfr ?? or ??? flops with in blinds or not in blinds ?
ty
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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It looks bluffy, but it's a limped pot so I fold.
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overflow
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Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 356
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by crazycrazy
guys,
23/18/3ish means vpip/flops/pfr ?? or ??? flops with in blinds or not in blinds ?
ty
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First number is VP$IP, it's the percentage of the pot that person has contributed voltuntarily, which means outside of, and in addition to the blinds.
The second number is preflop raise % (PFR%), this is the ratio of the number of times the person has raised preflop with the number of hands they've been dealt.
The 3rd number is Total Aggression Factor, which (and guys DEFINITELY correct me if I'm wrong here) is a post flop stat that tracks how often you're opening and raising ratioed against how frequently you're just calling.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Ok so most of you are saying fold, which makes me think I might have played this hand poorly.
I was actually villain in this hand, and I had pocket 2's, for a full house on the turn.
He ended up calling my river push, but by the responses here I'm guessing my line might not be the most +EV, if the Q folds the river.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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ok, haha, when i saw this hand i was thinking more about how the villain should've played it than how "you" should have.
Definitely lead the flop, if he raises you can 3-bet or call and c/p the turn whichever is fine. You shouldn't c/r a limped pot and you definitely shouldn't be c/c.
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sauce123
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dizzy
Posts: 2,405
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yea man u gotta make some absurdly large raise on the flop here or lead or build a pot or whatever
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I got more flava than fruitstripe gum
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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massimo/sauce - yah I agree. This was one of those 5% of the times where I don't actually lead my set, and check call for some odd reason. I'm not sure why, I think at the time i thought leading out into four players was gonna seem too strong.
But yah I agree, leading woulda been good. Villain would have called,and then probably raised my turn lead, and I could have 3-bet.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Unibomber14
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: The future
Posts: 321
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I have no credible response to this hand, but I like how you did that (with the roll swap). It changes the way I might think about future hands before I post them here.
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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snowbird4life
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 246
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I kinda like how you played it from villain POV. The bet on the river doesn't make me think your valuebetting your nuts, but more of a missed draw perhaps. While a lead bet here may seem to be good in retrospect, what if noone had a queen? Not much value there.
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