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TPTK oop of bad lag and draw line check

  
 
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benny999
Old 09-19-2006, 05:36 PM     Post subject: TPTK oop of bad lag and draw line check #1 (permalink)  
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Based off one hand earlier this session, button seems like a bad lag that over values pairs of any kind. I haven't seen him play a big hand yet. UTG is unknown but looks clearly on a draw.

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($99)
BB ($101.20)
UTG ($78.50)
Button ($185)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, T.
UTG calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) 7, T, 7 (4 players)
Hero bets $2, BB folds, UTG calls $2, Button raises to $6, UTG calls $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($17) 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, Button raises to $12, Hero calls $12, UTG calls $10.

River: ($41) 5 (3 players)
Hero bets $24, UTG folds, Button calls $24.

Final Pot: $89
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benny999
Old 09-20-2006, 03:49 AM #2 (permalink)  
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bump - I edited it for brevity. plz comment...I was really unsure of the turn and kinda unsure of everything else too.
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dsaxton
Old 09-20-2006, 04:03 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Calling the flop is ok, but you have to release the hand on a later street facing a lot of strength. You got lucky if you won this hand, in my opinion.
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benny999
Old 09-20-2006, 04:15 AM #4 (permalink)  
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I thought button's raise on the turn looked weak, like a worse ten or something. And the bet he raised wasn't very meaningful either to me.

But maybe the size doesn't matter, just the fact he raised a bet period?
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midas06
Old 09-20-2006, 05:21 AM #5 (permalink)  
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calling the turn raise is very bad
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benny999
Old 09-20-2006, 05:34 AM #6 (permalink)  
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so call flop, check/fold turn? lead/fold?

This is someone I've seen get very aggro with bottom pair...actually maybe it's more likely he has a big hand since he bet stronger with bottom pair in the earlier hand (then called a push).
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benny999
Old 09-20-2006, 05:38 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Here's how that hand went if it helps (Button is BB here) -

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($67.10)
Hero ($98.00)
Button ($57.20)
SB ($79.50)
BB ($72.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, A.
UTG calls $1, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, BB calls $4, UTG folds.

Flop: ($11.50) 3, 9, 4 (2 players)
BB bets $11, Hero raises to $88, BB calls $56.90 (All-In).

Turn: ($167.40) T (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($167.40) Q (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $167.40

Results in white below:
BB has 3c 5c (one pair, threes).
Hero has Kh Ah (high card, ace).
Outcome: BB wins $147.30. Hero wins $20.10.
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Ravageur
Old 09-20-2006, 07:54 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I agree that folding the turn is best. As played c/c river?
Family Cruise IMO
 
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Genitruc
Old 09-20-2006, 07:58 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 sux to have that ridiculous history w villain if he had 777... very tough to fold imo since he ll pay you off with any weaker 10 (see hand posted above).
when the vpip's are high and the value bets are like razors, who can be safe?
 
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benny999
Old 09-20-2006, 09:34 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Yea that hand had a huge influence on me...normally I'd let it go on the turn.

Does anyone think there's something to the logic that he played the bottom pair fast, so he'd play a strong hand like trips slower?
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Irisheyes
Old 09-20-2006, 09:57 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Against an unknown I c/f the turn. Based on your read I check/push the turn.

And I believe the flop action is mixed up because the UTG seems to act before you after the Button raises, but I'm also likely to 3bet the flop depending on how likely I believe it is that UTG is drawing. Basically I want to get AI with the Button and cut off the UTG's drawing odds and to this as fast as possible before more cards come out.
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Robert
Old 09-20-2006, 05:13 PM #12 (permalink)  
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benny,

As standard I fold this. But with your read on button, a c/r AI on the turn might not be bad, since he will have a tendency to call with weaker T's and maybe even a lesser PPs. I'm not sure about this line though, because your read on previous hands said he was CALLING big bets with trash - here's he's being aggro himself. I know that if he's a big donk it might not be a huge difference, but it should be something you should factor in when deciding to push/fold turn.
Btw, I like a turn lead in this spot.
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gabe
Old 09-20-2006, 05:22 PM #13 (permalink)  
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lead the turn and fold to a raise
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