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TPTK good after a cold call?

  
 
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outphase
Old 01-20-2006, 10:33 PM     Post subject: TPTK good after a cold call? #1 (permalink)  
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no reads as the opp just sat down... my play was horrible on every street... except maybe the flop... thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($44.10)
UTG ($32.40)
MP ($64.25)
Hero ($120.30)
SB ($77.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A, J.
1 fold, MP raises to $3, Hero calls $3, 1 fold, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($9.50) 9, 6, J (3 players)
BB checks, MP bets $5, Hero raises to $14, BB folds, MP calls $9.

Turn: ($37.50) 2 (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $20, MP calls $20.

River: ($77.50) 5 (2 players)
MP bets $27.25 (All-In), Hero calls $27.25.

Final Pot: $132
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
 
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dsaxton
Old 01-20-2006, 11:11 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Overplaying top pair in these situations is a good way to trap yourself against a higher pair.

I might just check behind on the turn and try to show the hand down, or make a smaller turn bet and check behind on the river. I may even just call him on the flop since you have position. What do you suspect he called your flop raise with? He's drawing to at most 3 outs if you're ahead, and you could easily be well behind. There's no point in trying to aggressively protect the pot.
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zenbitz
Old 01-20-2006, 11:15 PM #3 (permalink)  
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34? I don't think so. Can you check the turn with 9J out and 2 clubs out?
I think I check or push turn - your bet commits you both to the rest on the river.

I think MP has a set... but I don't really suspect it until he calls $20 on the turn.

The real question is whether or not the river push is a busted draw. I think you have to call this vs. a new opp.... if for no other reason than to show you won't fold on the river
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Robert
Old 01-20-2006, 11:18 PM #4 (permalink)  
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This is a difficult one without reads.

Against an unknown I really dont like calling a raise with AJs, even though you have position. If you feel very comfortable postflop, its OK to call (I guess).

Reraise him more on the flop. You are giving him roughly 3:1 odds to call. Raise him $5 more or so.

Turn is fine. EDIT: thinking about it, I agree with dsaxton that checking behind on the turn and getting a cheap showdown would be best, because you dont really need to protect your hand.

The river is tough, cuz you are getting 4:1 on your call, but without a read I'm inclined to fold. The tough part of this hand is that you have no idea wether you are up against QQ, KK or AA (the hands I'm most afraid of here, although 87 is also possible if you are up against a creative opp).
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Fnord
Old 01-20-2006, 11:19 PM #5 (permalink)  
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This hand is all about reads and you don't have one.

Hence I would play it slow. Maybe, call the flop to take a peek at how he's playing the turn. Maybe give him air on the turn.

That being said, against a random in that game with an aggro image, this is the line I usually take. You just happened to run into either a hand or player who fustrated your efforts to keep this pot under control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Fnord
Old 01-20-2006, 11:21 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Reraise him more on the flop. You are giving him roughly 3:1 odds to call. Raise him $5 more or so.
We're not so much raising to protect anything. More a matter of establishing how we're going to play a hand that connected well with the flop so we can call bullshit against his c-bets with the same line in future hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Robert
Old 01-20-2006, 11:42 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Fnord, so you want to just coldcall opps flop bet and then go for a cheap showdown?
Is the purpose of just calling on the flop to keep the pot small?

I always think "omg I have TPTK, I need to reraise opp on the flop in order gain information and define my hand" - this is a bad habit, right?
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Fnord
Old 01-20-2006, 11:46 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
I always think "omg I have TPTK, I need to reraise opp on the flop in order gain information and define my hand" - this is a bad habit, right?
Yeah, that line of reasoning sucks. I've been saying that for a long time now...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Robert
Old 01-20-2006, 11:54 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
I always think "omg I have TPTK, I need to reraise opp on the flop in order gain information and define my hand" - this is a bad habit, right?
Yeah, that line of reasoning sucks. I've been saying that for a long time now...
I understand why it sucks, and I'm also trying to try to fix this leak in my game.
But the problem is, in situations like this against an unknown opponent is that I call the flop bet in position, the turn is a blank and unknown fires out a another 2/3-potsized bet. I know the right answer heavily depends on reads, but when facing an unknown I often end up folding even though theres a chance he's just firing a second barrel with AK, AQ, KQ etc.
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