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griffey24
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04-26-2007, 04:13 AM
Post subject: TP+FD OOP with 200bb stacks
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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CO has been running at about 17/12/2, but has raised everytime it has folded around to him.
Button has been a call centre pre-flop, loosely calling raises and re-raises, but I haven't seen many of his hands post flop. He's running at 33/4/0.25
A call pre-flop may be a better play here, but I generally re-raise most hands out of the blinds if I'm going to play them facing a raise.
Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter
Stack sizes:
UTG: $159.34
UTG+1: $268
CO: $191.75
Button: $380.83
Hero: $516.25
BB: $205
Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with  
2 folds, CO raises to $8, Button calls, Hero raises to $29, 2 folds, Button calls.
Flop:    ($68, 2 players)
Hero bets $49, Button calls.
Turn:  ($166, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $52, Hero ??
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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c-luvin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 159
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make it 225 and call a push
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gabe
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: trying to live
Posts: 7,964
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what do you think you should do
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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If this was 100bb's deep, I would have probably just lead this turn strong, or check pushed.
On the turn, however, there weren't that many top pair hands by villain that I thought I could beat. I wasn't entirely sure that he was calling sooo loose that he would show up with K10 or worse here.
Is this still a push? or try getting to showdown cheaply?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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That turn bets is weak. Not too sure what to make of it. I think I go for the cheap showdown unless the river improves us.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
That turn bets is weak. Not too sure what to make of it. I think I go for the cheap showdown unless the river improves us.
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Yah I thought it was pretty weak too, so I didn't know what to make of it!
He's so passive that I'd imagine he'd check through some kind of flush draw here.
I mean, I'm never folding here. its just a matter of if its better to flat call this deep or push, against a passive villain.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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I raise any to any dollar amount that commits you.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,323
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Mis-read the hand. Didn't realize you ended up against the loose passive button. I guess call or raise depends on if you think he's capable of having less than AK here. Has he called a lot of reraises like this? I still don't see a hand you're beating currently calling a turn bet so what's the point in raising here? Does he chase flush draws far?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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I call turn and c/c non-heart river. Any Q and any heart and it's all in time. I'm think I'm too weak though.
I like c-luvin's aggression, but here I don't get it. I think only better hands call you down there and I don't think you have enough fold equity to fold out better hands on that board, especially with one card to come. Therefore, I like a turn call and c/c river with your underrepped hand. An extra card isn't going to hurt you as much as help you here.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Mis-read the hand. Didn't realize you ended up against the loose passive button. I guess call or raise depends on if you think he's capable of having less than AK here. Has he called a lot of reraises like this? I still don't see a hand you're beating currently calling a turn bet so what's the point in raising here? Does he chase flush draws far?
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I haven't seen down many of villain's hands post-flop yet. The only hand I saw was one where I raised AQclubs EP, MP caller and he called A7 off on the button.
Flop came 775, two clubs. I lead out, both players called. I checked turn, MP bet and button flat called and I pushed and obviously he called. So he's pretty passive, not raising trips on any street, even with the flush draw out.
As for how far he'd go with a draw, not enough reads to know this.
Not much has been said about my turn check. How good/bad is my check there in this spot?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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IowaSkinsFan
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,148
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your check is meh, idk normally someone versus someone passive when im have this strong of a madehand/draws im potting it.
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c-luvin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 159
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this is more interesting than i first thought.
AK makes alot of sense for this guy especially after reading your second hand against him (showing how passive he is). alot of passive fish wont 3 bet AK pre and smooth calling your 3 bet makes sense with AK too. the what i first thought was weakness on the turn seems more like donkstrength to me now.
to continue with this hand you have to be very disipined though. if you have a strong enough read on him that he has AK here to just call the turn bet you have to be willing to lay down to a ~100$ river bet that hell make with AK.
ugh with that said its so hard for me to say dont raise this turn when you have FE + strong hand + two draws to basically the nuts in a 3 bet pot deep.
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c-luvin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 159
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also i like a lead for 100 on this turn cuz your pretty sure your not gunna get raised if villian is this passive.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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Why do we want to lead $100 in to a $166 dollar pot where we think we might be behind and doing so will give us no info?
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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c-luvin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 159
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"Button has been a call centre pre-flop, loosely calling raises and re-raises, but I haven't seen many of his hands post flop. He's running at 33/4/0.25"
why do we think we are behind we have a very strong hand. The only thing that made me think we were behind before was his turn bet and if we lead we never see that turn bet.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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OK, that makes more sense. You think you're ahead here.
I don't think KT- plays this to a PF 3bet even if he's a calling station, but it's not my read. He looks like KJ+ or nut flush draw to me. Our preflop 3bet put us in an akward position in a bloated pot.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Something to consider is that this guy isn't a reg and probably doesn't want to lose a 400 dollar stack here.
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Silly String
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: KC, MO
Posts: 1,434
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An AK for the villain would have to be very certain we are on AA or KK here to fold this hand. I don't think he can put us there considering he is holding an A and a K. I guess 99 or JJ is a possiblity, but I'm not folding AK here. I think a push has little fold equity against hands we are not already beating.
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Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Silly String
An AK for the villain would have to be very certain we are on AA or KK here to fold this hand. I don't think he can put us there considering he is holding an A and a K. I guess 99 or JJ is a possiblity, but I'm not folding AK here. I think a push has little fold equity against hands we are not already beating.
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yah I agree... I didn't think a check push on this turn would have much fold equity.
Seems like most people are thinking I should slow down here on the turn, and go into check call mode.
But alas.. I have a hard time not getting it all in with TP+FD.
I checked and pushed over his weak turn bet.
He called ...
with K7 off lol
River was a pretty Q anyhow, shiiiiiiiip it!
Though given the feedback, I might slowdown in this kind of spot next time, until I have stronger reads. I didn't expect to see K7 off, thats for sure. But I guess thats all I could have been hoping for.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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Numbr2intheWorld
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,561
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Seems like most people are thinking I should slow down here on the turn, and go into check call mode.
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most people were saying push if anything... lol. I'd say it was half and half at least!
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griffey24
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto'ish
Posts: 4,611
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Massimo
Quote:
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Originally Posted by griffey24
Seems like most people are thinking I should slow down here on the turn, and go into check call mode.
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most people were saying push if anything... lol. I'd say it was half and half at least! |
lol.. yah you're right. your push vote made it 3-2.. and gabe's post sounded like "why are you posting this? this is an auto-push" .. so 4-2.. plus my push makes it 5-2.
insta-push it is! (based on this very large sample)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jay-Z
I'm a couple hands down and I'm tryin' to get back
I gave the other grip, I lost a flip for five stacks
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